Museum diorama getting too old?

[major bill]

Dioramas are a dated technology. So if museums what to engage younger visitor, perhaps museums need to start useing technology the younger children are using. Youths could use their smartphones to watch a computer generated 3D version of a Civil War battle. At this point many\most 4th and 5th graders bring their smartphones to the Museum.

Many National Battlefields now have short films instead of a giant diorama of the battle. When it comes to understanding a battle, is a film a better tool than case after case of artifacts? If a short film is the way to go at a battlefield, could not history museums use the same concept?

I will use the fur trade in my state as an example. Here are a couple options: 1) Build a small diorama showing Frenchmen in a canoe. 2) Use a full sized canoe with mankins. 3) Show a short film of a canoe. 4) Have a computer generated 3D canoe with Frenchmen using it. 5) Skip the canoe and fill the space with French and First People weapons.

 

[archieclement]

The question isn't really "What to do with this diorama?" It's "What is this diorama doing?"

How does the diorama tie into the rest of the museum? Is it supporting other existing interpretation? Is its purpose to grab kids' attention? Are there other solutions that better accomplish the intended use? The last one is important to ask if it's gotten to the point that time and money has to be sunk into it (which from the sounds of it, it has).

I'm of the opinion that history museums are some of the worst offenders when it comes to keeping up to what engages society. If you go to other types of museums (aerospace, science centers, natural history, etc.) and they do a much better job at keeping up with effective interpretation. A lot of Civil War museums would look very familiar to visitors during the centennial 60 years ago. And I'd bet when those centennial museums were going up people were arguing that when they visited the battlefields 60 years ago in 1900 they took a good book on the topic and used the war department markers and those worked great for learning. Times change, audiences change.

Tilden's "Interpreting our Heritage" actually briefly mentions that. Battlefields were originally laid out for the veterans. A lot of interpretation wasn't required because you didn't need to tell a veteran of the Wheatfield what combat was like in the Wheatfield. So as the 20th century went on and the visitors changed more from veterans to general public, different methods were required for interpretation. Although written in the 50's an using a type of writing somewhat obtuse today, it's still a good read for its six basic principles of interpretation:




Personally, I don't find dioramas all that engaging to children anymore. When they are, it's usually because everything else is even less engaging to them. Go to a natural history museum, many still use those miniature dioramas of what life was like when the dinosaurs still roamed. But you'll find kids largely tend to skip by the dioramas because the newer methods of interpretation in the exhibits tend to provoke kids much better.

I know they're fighting words here, but it was the same with the electric map at Gettysburg. Its time was passed and there were better ways to convey the same information to modern audiences.

If the rest of museum sucks more then one diorama display, they indeed have problems........but it would follow if they are drawn to the diorama, the rest is actually the less appealing.

 

[BuckPvt]

If the rest of museum sucks more then one diorama display, they indeed have problems........but it would follow if they are drawn to the diorama, the rest is actually the less appealing.

I certainly don't mean to throw shade, especially as I haven't seen the museum. If I were to make a stab in the dark, I'd guess the museum is mostly designed for adults, and is probably information heavy, so the diorama is the most visually appealing thing for children.

So to circle back to the 6 principles:
"Interpretation addressed to children (say up to the age of twelve) should not be a dilution of the presentation to adults, but should follow a fundamentally different approach. To be at its best it will require a separate program."

 

[archieclement]

I certainly don't mean to throw shade, especially as I haven't seen the museum. If I were to make a stab in the dark, I'd guess the museum is mostly designed for adults, and is probably information heavy, so the diorama is the most visually appealing thing for children.

So to circle back to the 6 principles:
"Interpretation addressed to children (say up to the age of twelve) should not be a dilution of the presentation to adults, but should follow a fundamentally different approach. To be at its best it will require a separate program."

Therein seems the catch, museums need to decide if they are for adults or provide elementary education to children, cause in reality the focus and appropriate displays are not the same.

If they try to do everything, they do nothing well as catering to both, takes away from both.......personally tend to think elementary education should go to elementary and high schools, and shouldn't be a major focus of museums. As well should be noted around 78% of the public is adult........

It always seems odd when discussing decline of interest or attendance, that as they have gone to rudimentary education story boards.......that if don't cater to the majority who are adults, why do you think they would continue to come?

 

[Kurtlg]

Dioramas are a dated technology. So if museums what to engage younger visitor, perhaps museums need to start useing technology the younger children are using. Youths could use their smartphones to watch a computer generated 3D version of a Civil War battle. At this point many\most 4th and 5th graders bring their smartphones to the Museum.

Many National Battlefields now have short films instead of a giant diorama of the battle. When it comes to understanding a battle, is a film a better tool than case after case of artifacts? If a short film is the way to go at a battlefield, could not history museums use the same concept?

I will use the fur trade in my state as an example. Here are a couple options: 1) Build a small diorama showing Frenchmen in a canoe. 2) Use a full sized canoe with mankins. 3) Show a short film of a canoe. 4) Have a computer generated 3D canoe with Frenchmen using it. 5) Skip the canoe and fill the space with French and First People weapons.

As I recall the fur trade displays were a bit dated. It would be nice to have an actual birch bark canoe displayed because of its importance to the Native Americans and later the French in the fur trade. It would be nice to have some computer generated imagery perhaps on the construction. The use of smartphones and newer technology is the new trend that museums need to address along with the display of artifacts. The issues will become space and funding.

 

[elmira64]

I certainly don't mean to throw shade, especially as I haven't seen the museum. If I were to make a stab in the dark, I'd guess the museum is mostly designed for adults, and is probably information heavy, so the diorama is the most visually appealing thing for children.

So to circle back to the 6 principles:
"Interpretation addressed to children (say up to the age of twelve) should not be a dilution of the presentation to adults, but should follow a fundamentally different approach. To be at its best it will require a separate program."

Sign of the times. It's all different than years ago. Most young people anymore can't function without their phones. It seems to include a fair number of adults also. When I was a kid, my first trip to Gettysburg about 7-8 yrs. old was a revelation. Nothing appeared to be geared toward kids but it didn't matter. I fed my interest by reading. None of the museums back then catered to kids. But those who were inclined had a basic interest from American history taught in schools. Personally, I believe only a fraction of young folks compared to those of the past will show any interest no matter how it's presented. I may well be wrong in my assumption, but you can lead a horse to water....

 

[Library Lady]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone been to a museum that used virtual reality headsets in an exhibit? If so, did that technology work for you?

 

[major bill]

As I recall the fur trade displays were a bit dated. It would be nice to have an actual birch bark canoe displayed because of its importance to the Native Americans and later the French in the fur trade. It would be nice to have some computer generated imagery perhaps on the construction. The use of smartphones and newer technology is the new trend that museums need to address along with the display of artifacts. The issues will become space and funding.

The Museum updated the First People display, but the fur trade area is the same it was 30 years ago. We do have docent prop room so I can take fur trade items up with me.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Typical questions are "Why are the Americans fighting the British?"

A perfect example of our current public education policies.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

" Therein seems the catch, museums need to decide if they are for adults or provide elementary education to children,".

Well said @archieclement.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Dioramas are a dated technology. So if museums what to engage younger visitor, perhaps museums need to start useing technology the younger children are using.

Yep, static dioramas are for the most part ... relics from a past era.

However, the modern wargaming folks have done an excellent job of merging old school modeling
with current tech.

I think such cooperation would be easy with a museum diorama.

 

[Pat Answer]

Yep, static dioramas are for the most part ... relics from a past era.

However, the modern wargaming folks have done an excellent job of merging old school modeling
with current tech.

Gone are the days of electric maps with tiny Christmas tree lights.

Gone but not forgotten… yet…
I loved the electric-light map at the Monmouth Battlefield Visitor Center as a (little and big) kid. It was replaced a few years back, along with much old-style presentation, with a sit-down theater, updated situation wall-maps, and storyboards set up as context for artifacts and exhibits. Now, to be honest, almost anything would have improved the old place, but overall the curators seem to have made a good effort to keep up with the times while conveying the same amount of information. That I didn't have to drag my family in (the first time LOL) says something.
Interestingly enough, the fight at the Parsonage (Wayne's Pennsylvanians vs British 2nd Grenadier Battalion) diorama was still there when last we went and seemed to still draw young folks…

Of course not every museum has that kind of budget.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Gone but not forgotten… yet…
I loved the electric-light map at the Monmouth Battlefield Visitor Center as a (little and big) kid. It was replaced a few years back,

I hear ya !

My favorite was in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
( Battle of Look Out Mountain)

It was a very small museum ... actually a roadside tourist trap named the " Confederama".
Not much larger than a modern convenience store.

But as a young kid back then, I was mesmerized by the diorama and little Christmas tree lights on the map.



There's been a few threads about that place:

Classic roadside attraction: "The Confederama" | Traveler's Companion - Visit Historic Sites

Does anyone have memories of this vintage "roadside attraction" in Chattanooga ? http://www.popcultmag.com/obsessions/firstpersonescapades/confederama/confederama1.html

civilwartalk.com

 

[R. Porter]

" Therein seems the catch, museums need to decide if they are for adults or provide elementary education to children,".

Well said @archieclement.

Except that years ago I read a discussion by a researcher who stated that any time he was investigating something that was new to him he headed first to the children's section of the library here he could find books with a straight forward overview and lots of pictures to give him the lay of the land before taking a deep dive into a relatively narrow topic. Much the same way that you take survey courses before focusing on courses for your major in college.

If you are going to attract new students to history, whether old or young, what do you think will work the best? Consider all of those Disney cartoon movies that were designed to entertain more than one age group. (I don't want to see complaints about their historical accuracy. Everyone here knows about that and you'll just look like someone grandstanding for attention. The point is that the movies were made to engage on more than one level and they appear to have been very successful at it.). Ultimately, I think museums can provide elementary education to both children and adults as well as an advanced education.

 

[Bentonville]

Looks like the intent was to save money on staff and artifacts and to discourage any visitors from returning.

I can usually find a descent bookstore in at any battlefield. I bought a Shelby Foote excerpt from the three volume set.

Why? I felt bad for the woman who worked there. She seemed desperate to talk to someone. So I talked to her and bought a book.

I heated a poorly made P53 and looked out a glass window at an emplacement I would have least kept grass out of.

To be fair though IMHO Corinth is such a built up town and was such a mess otherwise that short of a series of dioramas on grand scale, or someone who really understands the history there enough to yell a class full of rowdy 5th graders about the significance the place is a wasteland.

 

[JerryD]

Therein seems the catch, museums need to decide if they are for adults or provide elementary education to children, cause in reality the focus and appropriate displays are not the same.

I cant speak for all museums, but I am a docent at the Smithsonian National Museum of American History, and we have displays that focus on both, as well as on those who are deaf, or are blind, or speak foreign languages. So its not really necessary to pick one or the other. But I realize that we are perhaps not the norm.

 

[JerryD]

Except that years ago I read a discussion by a researcher who stated that any time he was investigating something that was new to him he headed first to the children's section of the library here he could find books with a straight forward overview and lots of pictures to give him the lay of the land before taking a deep dive into a relatively narrow topic. Much the same way that you take survey courses before focusing on courses for your major in college.

If you are going to attract new students to history, whether old or young, what do you think will work the best? Consider all of those Disney cartoon movies that were designed to entertain more than one age group. (I don't want to see complaints about their historical accuracy. Everyone here knows about that and you'll just look like someone grandstanding for attention. The point is that the movies were made to engage on more than one level and they appear to have been very successful at it.). Ultimately, I think museums can provide elementary education to both children and adults as well as an advanced education.

Perhaps a bit off topic (or more than a bit), but I remember seeing an interview with some Jeopardy champion and he said he used books aimed at tweens for doing his research. They give the essential facts (which is all you need for Jeopardy) without going into a lot of excess analysis and detail, like college level books would do.

 

[DugGapRob]

Working at the Museum waiting for students to arrive. The Museum staff does not overly like this diorama because it is a major draw for the students and keeps them from looking at other things. I guess this is true, but many student love the diorama. The staff keeps thinking of removing it.
View attachment 500742
I agree that the diorama has seen better days and a few of the figures have came unglued. Any guess what it depicts?

So do well done dioramas help a museum? I still enjoy seeing a well done diorama, but some are not so well done. Note here a one man Confederate cannon crew. See anything wrong? What kind of gun powder turns a sponge red?View attachment 500743

Who in the hell would wish to remove something that sparks the interest of students? I remember being enthralled with dioramas when I was a kid, and I still love them as an adult. The photos @archieclement posted of the Corinth Civil War Interpretive Center perfectly illustrate why many kids are bored with history. As much as I love history, I tend to skip over textual displays and press-the-buttons audio. As my wife can attest, I've got plenty of books to read at home.

Museums aren't there to capture the interest of Civil War scholars who demand meticulous accuracy. They're already hooked.
Let museums catch their interest of these kids. Even if it is with an inaccurate diorama. It may sell them a Civil War book in the bookstore or at their next school book fair.

You could have kids list individual items they see on the miniature soldiers person, then have them do a scavenger hunt for the items on there list in the rest of the museum.

 

[Virginia Dave]

Who in the hell would wish to remove something that sparks the interest of students? I remember being enthralled with dioramas when I was a kid, and I still love them as an adult. The photos @archieclement posted of the Corinth Civil War Interpretive Center perfectly illustrate why many kids are bored with history. As much as I love history, I tend to skip over textual displays and press-the-buttons audio. As my wife can attest, I've got plenty of books to read at home.

Museums aren't there to capture the interest of Civil War scholars who demand meticulous accuracy. They're already hooked.
Let museums catch their interest of these kids. Even if it is with an inaccurate diorama. It may sell them a Civil War book in the bookstore or at their next school book fair.

You could have kids list individual items they see on the miniature soldiers person, then have them do a scavenger hunt for the items on there list in the rest of the museum.


View attachment 501067

Well said sir. Excellent observation.

 

[archieclement]

Guess some people's philosophy is instead of dealing with the 99% that isn't appealing, remove the 1% that does draw attention............

Then wonder why attendence is down........hmmm.

Though credit for the Corinth visitor center pictures goes to Bradley, I just agreed oversized storyboards don't appeal to me. It's the oversized that I especially hate, as it wastes space that could be used to display other items or information, as well its often rather rudimentary info..........but seems the main idea behind it........to waste space........