Most Underrated General

How about the 21st Mississippi's attack on July 2nd in the Wheatfield- '.......the Greatest Charge ever witnessed in the entire ACW....' Was the credit given to Brig Gen Barksdale or Col. Humphreys ???
 
Elennsar,
The credit for a victory doesn't always belong to the commanding general. For example, it would be unfair to credit the Fort Henry victory to Grant, because the navy did the job and suffered the casualties.
Civil War Scholar.
That is not a good comparison to the issue of Evans's role as opposed to Barksdale, because the navy is not serving under Grant at Fort Henry.
 
Keyser Soze,
since I cannot judge the tone of your message, I will take it as amicable. Pillow was one of the worst generals, while Polk was not a good choice for division or corps commander. He was a good morale lifter and had some bright moments (Perryville) but definitely not a good commander.
Civil War Scholar.
 
A greatly underrated Confederate General is Robert Daniel Johnston of North Carolina.
His career began as a captain in the 23rd North Carolina Infantry. In early 1862, he was promoted to lieutenant colonel and fought at Williamsburg under Jubal Early. After Seven Pines, he rose in command of that regiment. He fought bravely at South Mountain and Sharpsburg, under D.H. Hill. At Chancellorsville, he was given command of the 12th North Carolina, which he commanded at Gettysburg. In reward for his services, he was promoted to Brigadier General and commanded Alfred Iverson's old brigade. Yet, his most significant and most heroic performance of his was at Spotsylvania, where his brigade of heroes rushed to the Mule Shoe after Hancock's breakthrough and fought to the utmost, halting the Yankees and inflicting them heavy losses, despite Johnston's wounding. He also served in the Valley with his old commander, Jubal Early, where their tiny and gallant band stood bravely as a small tub to an all-devouring whale, Sheridan and his army.

Robert_D__Johston.jpg


General Robert D. Johnston of North Carolina.
Civil War Scholar.
 
Do you have a source for this?
Barksdale's subordination to Evans or the navy not serving under Grant?

On the former:

http://www.cincinnaticwrt.org/data/ccwrt_history/talks_text/breiner_balls_bluff.html
Or in less depth, any Order of Battle.

On the latter:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Yg...ed=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Fort Henry&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=KR...ed=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Fort Henry&f=false

No mention whatsoever of Foote answering to Grant.

http://books.google.com/books?id=fI...epage&q="Grant" "Foote" "subordinate'&f=false

Given the general state of affairs on navy officers being independent of army control, is it surprising?


CWS: How has that Johntson been underrated?

If we're going to describe as "underrated" every general who isn't constantly in the public eye, this thread will have no room to talk about what generals are rated worse than their accomplishments merit.
 
If we're going to describe as "underrated" every general who isn't constantly in the public eye, this thread will have no room to talk about what generals are rated worse than their accomplishments merit.
Considering the source, I think you meant, "If we're going to describe as "underrated" every Confederate general who isn't constantly in the public eye..."
 
Considering the source, I think you meant, "If we're going to describe as "underrated" every Confederate general who isn't constantly in the public eye..."
I did originally write it that way.

But I don't mind him picking Confederate generals to call attention to, I mind him picking generals who are given the credit they deserve and who may or may not be forgotten in popular history - I'll admit to erring on the side of "being forgotten" over underrated (though I'd argue being forgotten is not giving him his due) with nominating Gregg, but Barksdale is a fairly recognizable figure to anyone who knows anything about Fredericksburg or Gettysburg even if they know none of his other deeds.

Robert Johnston is more "not well remembered" than "not given credit where credit is due". There really would be no room to talk about the underrated if we stuck to the brave and forgotten - the list is too long.
 
Perhaps the most underrated general of all is Jubal Anderson Early. Throughout his career, he was a gallant, bold and victorious fighter.
At Blackburn's Ford, his first engagement in the war, his arrival and counterattack pushed the Union troops over the ford, which impressed his commander, P.G.T. Beauregard.
At First Manassas, he led the charge that crushed Howard's brigade, a charge which contributed in the Union rout. Afterwards, he was promoted to Brigadier General.
At the Battle of Williamsburg in the Peninsula Campaign (May 5, 1862) D.H. Hill and Longstreet ordered him to attack a vastly superior Union force. Leading two regiments of Virginians, the 24th and the 38th (if anybody has ancestors in those regiments, let me know, please:smile coffee:) he attacked and was wounded. He held the Union force for sufficient time and the Confederates evacuated Williamsburg, in one of Joseph E. Johnston's retrogrades.
General Early rejoined the army (the Army of Northern Virginia, now under General Robert E. Lee) just before the Battle of Malvern Hill. Early's performance earned him the respect of General Lee.
After the Seven Days, Early and his brigade were placed in Stonewall Jackson's wing. At the Battle of Cedar Mountain, Early was instrumental in stemming the tide, repulsing two Union attacks. At the Battle of Second Manassas, on August 30, 1862, when A.P. Hill was certain his line would break, Early came forth and repulsed the Yankees once more.
At Sharpsburg, when his division commander, Major General Alexander Lawton, fell wounded, Early succeeded him. It is said that throughout the battle, the Yankees were pivoting on his flanks but couldn't dislodge him, which is the truth. Both Early's and Hood's performances in the Battle of Sharpsburg caused their promotions to Major Generals.
At Fredericksburg, upon seeing Meade's Pennsylvanians being close in achieving the penetration they wanted, he came forth with his command and sent them scrambling to where they came from.
While General Lee was defeating Hooker at the Battle of Chancellorsville, Early remained at Fredericksburg and resisted John Sedgwick's attempts to capture Marye's Heights.
At the Second Battle of Winchester, he behaved superbly and contributed to General Ewell's victory by occupying and holding Apple Pie Ridge.
At Gettysburg, on Day 1, his division annihilated Barlow's, causing the Union XI Corps to crumble. On Day 2, his division seized East Cemetery Hill, this, alongside Barksdale's movement to Plum Run, being the furthest penetration achieved by Confederates at Gettysburg.
At the Battle of Wilderness, he saved the day for Ewell on May 5 by repulsing Warren's advances.
At Spotsylvania, he commanded the Third Corps of the Army of Northern Virginia and fought gallantly at the Mule Shoe.
After Cold Harbor, General Lee gave General Early command of the Second Corps.
At the Shenandoah, Early again proved himself a shining star in the sky of Confederate generals. His victory at Monocacy and his gallant advance against Washington told the world that the Confederacy, although beleaguered, was still holding its own.
After Early's victory at Second Kernstown, Sheridan was sent to subdue him. Early, thrown now as a small tub opposing an all-devouring whale resisted bravely and, at Cedar Creek, routing two thirds of his opponent's victory, with disorganization in the ranks being the reason for his withdrawal. During his Valley Campaign, Early lost just under 9000 and Sheridan close to 20000.
During the 1864-1865 winter, most of Early's gallant band was transferred to Petersburg, leaving him with a force of 1500.
Waynesboro was his last hurrah. Afterwards, with his warriors captured or killed, Early played no role in the last days of the war.
JubalSEarlyVignettep149crop.jpg

Lieutenant-General Jubal Anderson Early, CSA, I salute you!
Civil War Scholar.
 
At Vicksburg, he stood near Jackson with 25000 men while Pemberton's were eating rats in the besieged city.

Not surprisingly you mischaracterize the actual events at Vicksburg. Johnston understood that any army trapped in the defenses of the city was doomed. He wanted Pemberton to break out and join him to form a mobile force. Unfortunately, Davis disagreed and demanded that Pemberton defend the city. Pemberton was caught between his commander and his president. When Pemberton was finally convinced to attempt the breakout he was caught on the move at Champion Hill and defeated. He was forced to retreat back into the city where Johnston could do little to help him.

Read an interesting article about the Pemberton/Johnston command relationship at

http://www.cincinnaticwrt.org/data/ccwrt_history/talks_text/smith_johnston_pemberton.html
 
Last edited:
Perhaps the most underrated general of all is Jubal Anderson Early. Throughout his career, he was a gallant, bold and victorious fighter.
At Blackburn's Ford, his first engagement in the war, his arrival and counterattack pushed the Union troops over the ford, which impressed his commander, P.G.T. Beauregard.
At First Manassas, he led the charge that crushed Howard's brigade, a charge which contributed in the Union rout. Afterwards, he was promoted to Brigadier General.
At the Battle of Williamsburg in the Peninsula Campaign (May 5, 1862) D.H. Hill and Longstreet ordered him to attack a vastly superior Union force. Leading two regiments of Virginians, the 24th and the 38th (if anybody has ancestors in those regiments, let me know, please:smile coffee:) he attacked and was wounded. He held the Union force for sufficient time and the Confederates evacuated Williamsburg, in one of Joseph E. Johnston's retrogrades.
General Early rejoined the army (the Army of Northern Virginia, now under General Robert E. Lee) just before the Battle of Malvern Hill. Early's performance earned him the respect of General Lee.
After the Seven Days, Early and his brigade were placed in Stonewall Jackson's wing. At the Battle of Cedar Mountain, Early was instrumental in stemming the tide, repulsing two Union attacks. At the Battle of Second Manassas, on August 30, 1862, when A.P. Hill was certain his line would break, Early came forth and repulsed the Yankees once more.
At Sharpsburg, when his division commander, Major General Alexander Lawton, fell wounded, Early succeeded him. It is said that throughout the battle, the Yankees were pivoting on his flanks but couldn't dislodge him, which is the truth. Both Early's and Hood's performances in the Battle of Sharpsburg caused their promotions to Major Generals.
At Fredericksburg, upon seeing Meade's Pennsylvanians being close in achieving the penetration they wanted, he came forth with his command and sent them scrambling to where they came from.
While General Lee was defeating Hooker at the Battle of Chancellorsville, Early remained at Fredericksburg and resisted John Sedgwick's attempts to capture Marye's Heights.
At the Second Battle of Winchester, he behaved superbly and contributed to General Ewell's victory by occupying and holding Apple Pie Ridge.
At Gettysburg, on Day 1, his division annihilated Barlow's, causing the Union XI Corps to crumble. On Day 2, his division seized East Cemetery Hill, this, alongside Barksdale's movement to Plum Run, being the furthest penetration achieved by Confederates at Gettysburg.
At the Battle of Wilderness, he saved the day for Ewell on May 5 by repulsing Warren's advances.
At Spotsylvania, he commanded the Third Corps of the Army of Northern Virginia and fought gallantly at the Mule Shoe.
After Cold Harbor, General Lee gave General Early command of the Second Corps.
At the Shenandoah, Early again proved himself a shining star in the sky of Confederate generals. His victory at Monocacy and his gallant advance against Washington told the world that the Confederacy, although beleaguered, was still holding its own.
After Early's victory at Second Kernstown, Sheridan was sent to subdue him. Early, thrown now as a small tub opposing an all-devouring whale resisted bravely and, at Cedar Creek, routing two thirds of his opponent's victory, with disorganization in the ranks being the reason for his withdrawal. During his Valley Campaign, Early lost just under 9000 and Sheridan close to 20000.
During the 1864-1865 winter, most of Early's gallant band was transferred to Petersburg, leaving him with a force of 1500.
Waynesboro was his last hurrah. Afterwards, with his warriors captured or killed, Early played no role in the last days of the war.
View attachment 44400
Lieutenant-General Jubal Anderson Early, CSA, I salute you!
Civil War Scholar.

Gosh, CWS, that's quite a paean to Ol' Jube! I'm not sure he deserves all of the hyperbole, but he is actually one of Lee's underrated generals. He didn't surrender - didn't have a command to surrender! But what Jubal Early is not underrated for are his efforts at historical preservation. We have to be careful, though, as Early's memory was mighty keen on some things and mighty shifty on others! And, we are forever indebted to him for kick-starting the phenomenon known as The Lost Cause. Early's post-war activities and speeches very much overshadowed everything he did during the war as a general - and not a bad one, either. But he conducted an insurgency in his own way, just as sure as others elsewhere who put their bed sheets over their heads. It very much, right or wrong, overshadows his military accomplishments.
 
At Vicksburg, he stood near Jackson with 25000 men while Pemberton's were eating rats in the besieged city.

Not surprisingly you mischaracterize the actual events at Vicksburg. Johnston understood that any army trapped in the defenses of the city was doomed. He wanted Pemberton to break out and join him to form a mobile force. Unfortunately, Davis disagreed and demanded that Pemberton defend the city. Pemberton was caught between his commander and his president. When Pemberton was finally convinced to attempt the breakout he was caught on the move at Champion Hill and defeated. He was forced to retreat back into the city where Johnston could do little to help him.

Read an interesting article about the Pemberton/Johnston command relationship at

http://www.cincinnaticwrt.org/data/ccwrt_history/talks_text/smith_johnston_pemberton.html

My question is and always has been (Since I first read Foote) Johnston's plan to help Pemberton out of Vicksburg required decent 2 way communication between the two. Not great but decent communication (planning, timing, etc.). With Grant in the way, how was this supposed to be handled?

Not trying to stir any pot. I really just don't know.
 
My question is and always has been (Since I first read Foote) Johnston's plan to help Pemberton out of Vicksburg required decent 2 way communication between the two. Not great but decent communication (planning, timing, etc.). With Grant in the way, how was this supposed to be handled?

Not trying to stir any pot. I really just don't know.

There is evidence that at least one of the couriers operating between them was stopping at Grant's HQ on the way.
 
My question is and always has been (Since I first read Foote) Johnston's plan to help Pemberton out of Vicksburg required decent 2 way communication between the two. Not great but decent communication (planning, timing, etc.). With Grant in the way, how was this supposed to be handled?
They were able to communicate a little bit through couriers who slipped through the lines but it was problematic.
 
Gosh, CWS, that's quite a paean to Ol' Jube! I'm not sure he deserves all of the hyperbole, but he is actually one of Lee's underrated generals. He didn't surrender - didn't have a command to surrender! But what Jubal Early is not underrated for are his efforts at historical preservation. We have to be careful, though, as Early's memory was mighty keen on some things and mighty shifty on others! And, we are forever indebted to him for kick-starting the phenomenon known as The Lost Cause. Early's post-war activities and speeches very much overshadowed everything he did during the war as a general - and not a bad one, either. But he conducted an insurgency in his own way, just as sure as others elsewhere who put their bed sheets over their heads. It very much, right or wrong, overshadows his military accomplishments.

Dearest diane,
First of all, where did you spot the hyperbole in my text? Tell me, so that I can look at it and amend the text, if practicable.
At second, Early initiated the Lost Cause viewpoint, alongside Fitz Lee. But, the Lost Cause is not a lie. It has elements and seeds of truth, which are many times overlooked by researchers and scholars. For instance, it is true than Northern numerical superiority was a deciding factor in the outcome (see Third Petersburg, where the Army of Northern Virginia lost its earthworks to a sea of Federals. Fort Gregg was defended by 200 soldiers and they held for half an hour, before surrendering to a force more than 20 times larger).
I didn't exactly understand your parallel, but I say that Early and the original Lost Causers didn't wear blinders or expressed an unsourced and unjustified position. The SCV are just trying to present "The Other Side of the Coin". Let's hear what they have to say and then decide if we agree or disagree.
Very friendly,
Civil War Scholar.
 
That's what I thought. Then, really, the prospect of Pemberton escaping was small to nil?

As far as Joe Johnston goes, he gets attacked a lot for his actions against Sherman, but wasn't Davis' original plan to wait and delay the Union until either the North tired of war, or foreign intervention? If that's the case, then Joe did exactly what was asked of him.

Just a thought.
 

Learn About Us
About CivilWarTalk
Contact the Webmaster
Meet the Staff
Link to CivilWarTalk
Join Our Community
Register
Browse Forums
View Today's Discussions
Search the Forum
Get Help
FAQ
Student Guide
Forum Rules & Etiquette
Copyright / DMCA

     Contact Us CivilwarTalk on Facebook CivilWarTalk on YouTube CivilWarTalk on Twitter RSS Feed

Bringing the American Civil War and More to Life.
© 1999 - , CIVILWARTALK, LLC - Site Version 10.0

SlaveryTalk.com - SecessionTalk.com - CivilWarTalk.com - ReconstructionTalk.com
Back
Top