Most Underrated General

[KeyserSoze]

A son William C. Gorgas was later Surgeon General of the United States.

And who also made the Panama Canal possible. As chief sanitary officer he eradicated the yellow fever and malaria that had been decimating the work force.

 

[IcarusPhoenix]

Brig. General Josiah Gorgas, Chief of Ordinance

Did outstanding work in keeping Confederate armies well supplied with weapons and ammunition.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/239223/Josiah-Gorgas

A son William C. Gorgas was later Surgeon General of the United States.

And he looks even better when compared to his counter-parts in the quartermaster's department.

 

[OpnCoronet]

Certainly, I think the accomplishments of Samuel R. Curtis, in helping to keep Missouri in the Union, are underappreciated, in the public mind, if not in those of Historian's.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

It is not imagination, Keyser Soze. It involves careful examination of the situation and thinking of the possible reactions.
Yet, sticking to the subject of the underrated generals, what are your opinions?
Civil War Scholar.

 

[KeyserSoze]

It is not imagination, Keyser Soze. It involves careful examination of the situation and thinking of the possible reactions.
Yet, sticking to the subject of the underrated generals, what are your opinions?
Civil War Scholar.

Well if your careful examinations and consideration of possible reactions had Bragg invading Ohio then you do have a vivid imagination.

 

[Elennsar]

It is not imagination, Keyser Soze. It involves careful examination of the situation and thinking of the possible reactions.
Yet, sticking to the subject of the underrated generals, what are your opinions?
Civil War Scholar.

"Somehow the Confederates get together and win big because of course they do" without even the most basic scrutiny of logistics from start to finish.

Where is the "careful examination"?

Also: Taliaferro was not under Jackson at First Manasass (in fact he was off in western Virginia at the time, commanding the 23rd Virginia), and was not present at Olustee.

For underrated officers - since that seems to include "overlooked" - I nominate David McMurtie Gregg if I haven't already and Cadmus M. Wilcox if I have.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

Keyser Soze,
"Accomplishing something in Ohio" ought to be "Accomplishing something in the Ohio". What I meant was Buckner, with his force in East Tennessee, probes against Burnside, convincing him his communications with Ohio are cut or in great danger to be cut, thus forcing him to retreat close to the Ohio River.
Civil War Scholar.

 

[Elennsar]

CWS:

Buckner's forces in East Tennessee are somewhere between http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;q1=field return;rgn=full text;idno=waro0035;didno=waro0035;view=image;seq=0857 (May 31) and http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;q1=field return;rgn=full text;idno=waro0035;didno=waro0035;view=image;seq=0947

Whereas Burnside's forces at the end of June are http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;idno=waro0035;node=waro0035:2;view=image;seq=491;size=100;page=root (and the following page)


And it should be noted that Buckner failed to stop Burnside historically with the forces we're talking about against the forces we're talking about, so "But Burnside was an idiot and Confederate soldiers are just plain better." won't fly.

 

[IcarusPhoenix]

And it should be noted that Buckner failed to stop Burnside historically with the forces we're talking about against the forces we're talking about, so "But Burnside was an idiot and Confederate soldiers are just plain better." won't fly.

As I've noted before, Burnside was generally remarkably lucky right until the moment the wasn't, and Fredericksburg and the Crater were those moments. Aside from that, his generalship was frankly not that bad; the assumption that a generally unsuccessful force would prevail against him in an entirely hypothetical situation under a strangely specific set of remarkably unlikely circumstances is to cross the border into surrealism.

 

[Elennsar]

As I've noted before, Burnside was generally remarkably lucky right until the moment the wasn't, and Fredericksburg and the Crater were those moments. Aside from that, his generalship was frankly not that bad; the assumption that a generally unsuccessful force would prevail against him in an entirely hypothetical situation under a strangely specific set of remarkably unlikely circumstances is to cross the border into surrealism.

Yeah. I'm not sure if "Burnside is defeated" in the context of an alternate situation in Tennessee is all that implausible, but basing it on "Burnside was a moron, so obviously he'd lose." is sloppy. The fact that it seems to be part of just assuming that "of course Union commanders wouldn't be able to respond to this strategy" makes it even worse.

 

[IcarusPhoenix]

The fact that it seems to be part of just assuming that "of course Union commanders wouldn't be able to respond to this strategy" makes it even worse.

...albeit par-for-the-course for this particular poster.

 

[Elennsar]

...albeit par-for-the-course for this particular poster.

Troubling more, not less, for that.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

One of the most underrated Confederate Generals is William Barksdale.
His military career began as colonel of the 13th Mississippi Infantry at First Manassas. At the Battle of Leesburg (or Ball's Bluff) his regiment was stationed in the steep slopes of the nearby hills and led the attack that routed the Union troops.
He fought in the Seven Days under Brigadier General Richard Griffith. After Griffith fell at Savage's Station, he led the brigade at a gallant charge at Malvern Hill. So impressed was General Lee with Barksdale's performance, that promoted him to Brig. Gen.
At Harpers Ferry, his brigade overcame the Union positions at Maryland Heights. At the Battle of Sharpsburg, he was under General McLaws. His attack routed the Union division of John Sedgwick, who suffered 2200 casualties out of 5000 men.
At Fredericksburg, his sharpshooters delayed Burnside for one, precious day and came close to furnishing General Lee "a bridge of dead Yankees", as Barksdale phrased it.
While Lee was battling and defeating Hooker at Chancellorsville, Barksdale and Jubal Early were ordered to counter the advance of Union general John Sedgwick. Although Sedgwick's first two attacks were repulsed with horrendous losses, his numerical superiority started to tell. Barksdale and Early, although compelled to retreat, continued to harass Sedgwick until Lee came with reinforcements that tipped the scales in favor of the Confederacy.
On July 2, 1863, while the Battle of Gettysburg was halfway, Barksdale's brigade, under McLaws, was ordered to attack at the Peach Orchard. They crumbled the Federals manning the place, capturing their commander and continued their gallant onslaught, smashing and shattering the division of Andrew Humphreys. They arrived at the Plum Run River, where a whole Union company was ordered to fire on General Barksdale, who received 13 chest wounds. His last words were "I am killed! Tell my wife and children that I died fighting at my post." He died shortly afterwards.

Brigadier General William Barksdale, CSA.

His gravestone at Jackson, Mississippi.

 

[Elennsar]

Barksdale is not exactly underrated or forgotten by any study of the ANV's battles.

http://antietam.aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=145 - his report for Antietam.

And a map of the attack on Sedgewick: http://antietam.aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5 All credit to Barksdale for his part, but he wasn't alone by any means.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

Elennsar,
Barksdale is often underrated and almost never included in the catalogs naming the best Confederate Generals. Perhaps, he was the best Mississippian who served in the Confederate States Army.
Civil War Scholar.

 

[Elennsar]

Elennsar,
Barksdale is often underrated and almost never included in the catalogs naming the best Confederate Generals. Perhaps, he was the best Mississippian who served in the Confederate States Army.
Civil War Scholar.

"Often underrated" based on precisely what? What catalogs talking about Confederate brigade commanders don't give him his due?

What he did and how well he did is listed in every source I can think of (Lee's Lieutenants, Generals in Gray, several books on Gettysburg . . .) that talks about Barksdale in any detail.

I'm not sure how high a rating you think he deserves, but I cannot name a single source that dismisses his accomplishments. He's not in the top five Confederate generals, but that's because Lee, Jackson, Forrest, and Stuart take four of those spots as a rule. (sometimes three if Stuart is left out). That hardly makes him comparable to almost no one gives Bragg credit for anything and Burnside is treated as if he was a retarded child.

 

[KeyserSoze]

"Often underrated" based on precisely what? What catalogs talking about Confederate brigade commanders don't give him his due?

I have a sneaking suspicion that given enough time we're going to find out that Gideon Pillow and Leonidas Polk were badly underrated as well.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

Elennsar,
I know what Freeman said about Barksdale. What I mean was that he is rather overlooked when examining the First Corps of the Army of Northern Virginia and that some of his accomplishments are often credited to other generals (for example, Nathan G. Evans at Leesburg).
As for Bragg, while he began with good outlooks, he was unfit to command an army. He showed that from early 1863 to early 1865 and what he was to counter his reverses is his tactical victory at Perryville, which he left unexploited and the draw at Stones' River.
As for Burnside, he was one of the worst generals of either side during the Civil War. At First Manassas, Bee and Evans stalled his progress. At Roanoke Island, what he won was a token victory that only helped the Federal blockade and didn't give the Yanks a stronghold in North Carolina. At Sharpsburg, he suffered useless casualties (20% of his corps) and was terribly defeated by A.P. Hill. He was responsible for the carnage at Fredericksburg (13000 Union casualties versus 4000 Confederate). In command of the Dept. of Ohio, he gained only notoriety for the arrest of Congressman Vallandigham. At the Knoxville Campaign, the credit for the US victory belongs to: Longstreet's Fort Sanders attack, John Parke's steadiness and the difficulty of the terrain. Burnside failed by every test throughout the Overland Campaign and was relieved after the Battle of the Crater. As I said, one of the worst Civil War generals.
Civil War Scholar.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

No, Keyser Soze, neither Pillow nor Polk are underrated.
Civil War Scholar.

 

[Elennsar]

Elennsar,
I know what Freeman said about Barksdale. What I mean was that he is rather overlooked when examining the First Corps of the Army of Northern Virginia and that some of his accomplishments are often credited to other generals (for example, Nathan G. Evans at Leesburg).

Often overlooked based on what? If you know what Freeman said about Barksdale, you know that examining said corps his actions are considered outstanding - "Barksdale had displayed, at Malvern Hill, what Lee styled the 'highest qualities of the soldier'. Lesser opportunities had not made him seem smaller." is his description of Barksdale prior to his work at Fredericksburg.

As for Leesburg: Evans is Barksdale's superior officer. Barksdale was not acting independently.

I am not interested in going over again how you are not giving Bragg and Burnside their due.