Impressions More advice requested...CS impression this time

[kbaxley45]

First off, I want to thank all of those here that helped me out earlier this year on some decisions regarding some impression upgrades for my Federal kit.

Now, it's time to move into my CS kit

I understand that a 'generic' CS impression is almost next to impossible given theater, time period, etc., but, like a lot of folks, I've only got so much money and basically have 'one shot' to try and get it as right as possible.

I currently own a jean cloth shell jacket that I purchased at a bargain second-hand about two years ago (see attached). It's very well-made and has served me well. I'm not sure if it passes as a domestic cloth RD III or a commutation jacket (maybe either)?

I have, however, lost about 30 pounds since buying the jacket and it kinda hangs on me now.

What I'm looking to do is get a new, better fitting coat. I am torn between Ben Tart's 4-button Sack Coat blank:

http://www.bnbtart.com/Blanks/FourButtonSackCoat.html

or maybe a jean cloth frock:

http://www.bnbtart.com/Blanks/SingleBreastedFrock.html

I've heard that either one of these could work in many scenarios, but, if you read Wambaugh and White's website, they'll tell you that a plain, jean frock will work just about anywhere while others say frocks are more early war appropriate.

Once again, it's a one or the other but not both situation. I plan on holding on to the shell jacket for now, which would leave me with a shorter coat for possibly warmer or later war events (as long as I could pass it off as a commutation jacket). Based on that, I wasn't sure if the 4 button sack would be necessary.

Anyway, what do you folks think? Would the frock be overkill or would the 4-button jacket be just fine?

Thanks, as always, in advance!

 

[BlueandGrayl]

Judging from your profile picture despite being from Cedar Park, Texas (Texas suburb) you have descendants who fought for the Union in an otherwise solidly Confederate state.

 

[kbaxley45]

Judging from your profile picture despite being from Cedar Park, Texas (Texas suburb) you have descendants who fought for the Union in an otherwise solidly Confederate state.

Hah! Well, it's the reverse, actually. I'm originally from NC, with my 3rd Great Grandfather and his 3 brothers serving in the 44th, 34th, and 23rd(x2) NC. The only decent, recent pictures of me in any kind of period uniform have been in my Federal kit

 

[captaindrew]

I believe a frock was more common than a sack coat and can cover either Eastern or Western theatre and although more common early war they were seen throughout the war.

 

[Tin cup]

First off, I want to thank all of those here that helped me out earlier this year on some decisions regarding some impression upgrades for my Federal kit.

Now, it's time to move into my CS kit !

WHAT type of events, or groups are you looking to hang around with?

Kevin Dally

 

[kbaxley45]

WHAT type of events, or groups are you looking to hang around with?

Kevin Dally

The group I'm with does a little bit of everything (local events, national ones, some living histories) but many of us are really trying to get in on as many high quality, immersive, campaigner style events as we can. That seems to be the future, in my opinion, and it's an aspect of the hobby that I'm very attracted to.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

You being here in Texas, and just starting out with C.S. I would start out with either a jean cloth civilian sack coat, or paletot for a jacket, and jean trousers with pre-1861 U.S. accoutrements, and a simple black felt slouch hat. There are thousands of variations in issue Confederate uniforms, but at the end of the day simple civilian cloths from the period will do in a pinch as most Confederate soldiers preferred clothing sent from their loved ones to issue items whenever possible.

I've been re-reading Lt. Col Arthur Fremantle's diary/account "Three Months in the Southern States" for the first time in a decade and this time taking notes of his accounts of Confederate uniforms, perhaps when I'm finished I'll put them here on CWT as a thread, but one note he made in Monroe, Louisiana of 1863 is as follows:

"On approaching Munro, we passed through the camp of Walker's Division (8,000 strong), which was on its march from Arkansas to meet Banks.----- The men were well armed with rifles and bayonets, but they were dressed in ragged civilian clothes."

Another note made in Bellbuckle Tennessee:

"General Liddell's brigade was composed of Arkansas troops-------The men were good sized, healthy, and well clothed, but without any attempt at uniformity in colour or cut; but nearly all grey or brown coats and felt hats. I was told that even if a regiment was clothed in proper uniform by the government, it would be become parti-coloured again in a week, as the soldiers preferred wearing the coarse homespun jackets and trousers made by their mothers and sisters at home. The Generals very wisely allow them to please themselves in this respect, and insist only upon their arms and accoutrements being kept in proper order."

Like I said when I finish reading and taking notes it'll probably come up here for discussion, and be their for world to see, as Fremantle is a wealth of information. You can stretch your budget and grab an example of every different depot made C.S. uniform, (like I have a bad habit of doing), or just starting out you can go with the basic stuff, but if your doing late war, have a blue-gray English kersey depot jacket would be necessary as the folks at home seem to have run out of cloth, or Yankees between them and their loved ones at the front forced many a Confederate soldier to wear the Army issued uniform in the last year and a half of the War, and contrary to popular belief, most Confederate solders were probably more uniform in appearance at the end than in homespun rags. If your going to do in depth research for you impression Fred Adolphus' website at adolphusconfederateuniforms.com is the best place to start, but like I said, best all-around and all-theater suit is a jean civilian one.

 

[Tin cup]

Rusk County Avengers has given good advice! I had my Wife make me a Plain-Jane civilian sack coat years ago, (see photo) and it took me to events that I couldn't have participated in otherwise. I have seen several period photo's of Confederates in civilian coats with full equipage. (see other photo of CS prisoner at Camp Douglas)
The civilian coat would work wonders in the Trans Miss!

Kevin Dally

 

[Tin cup]

The group I'm with does a little bit of everything (local events, national ones, some living histories) but many of us are really trying to get in on as many high quality, immersive, campaigner style events as we can. That seems to be the future, in my opinion, and it's an aspect of the hobby that I'm very attracted to.

In the 24th Missouri (https://www.facebook.com/24thMissouriVolInf/) also (https://www.24thmissouri.org/) have several members here in Texas. We always look to have folk check us out, see if they want to join in. We only do Federal, (but have some guys who can do CS, also) the bulk of our Unit lives in Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas, with 2-3 in Colorado, one in Utah, and we get folk joining up with us from all over the Country at specific events.


Also look at the Red River Battalion/9th TX Unit. they do both CS and Federal impressions, good ones too! https://www.facebook.com/Red-River-Battalion-145302515558602/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/9thtexas/

Kevin Dally

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

On another note, since Tart's excellent products have been mentioned, their civilian sack coat blank would be a grand choice. Its a civilian pattern, with exterior pockets, which always comes in handy at a reenactment. The C.S. "Four-Button Sack Coat" wouldn't be a good choice. Those coat's provenance is still relatively sketchy, most of the surviving ones have pretty solid evidence that came from the Richmond Depot late in the War, with most being worn at Appomattox. But to add to the mystery of these coats, the most commonly reproduced one, the "Purdum Coat" I believe its called, (I hope my memory isn't failing me), is in an Ohio historical society, and was supposedly brought home by a returning Union soldier, I've attempted to find the theater in which a "Purdum" fought, from the surrounding area of the museum the coat is in, and found either three or four Purdums from the area who all fought, and were discharged from the Army after the Vicksburg Campaign, raising the possibility of that particular coat coming from some where other than the Richmond Depot, earlier in the war. The information on those coats is a little too unknown for my tastes to recommend it being worn for really anything other than mid-to-late war Virginia, thus precluding its use elsewhere.

(Fred Adolphus has written an excellent article on those coats, and I have a hard time believing he missed the possibilities of the "Purdum Coat" I have raised here, so don't take the possibility I raised for it as gospel)

Don't worry a civilian is more comfortable than a shell jacket lol.

 

[kbaxley45]

Thank you all for the wonderful advice so far. This forum never ceases to provide me with angles I never considered exploring. The civilian sack looks like a great idea! I've also been an avid reader of the Fred Adolphus site since I got into this a couple of years ago and have lost count at the number of times I have read and re-read those articles.

Thank you, again, for all your help!

 

[Tailor Pete]

I'm a little late in responding as I've been otherwise engaged, but I'll throw in my opinion.

First, I personally like the looks of a Wool Jean Frock Coat, but have never had a need for one. Simply put, while they were certainly visible throughout the Confederate armies across the entirety of the conflict, they probably weren't very common. The Confederacy approached their uniform designs from a position of frugality and expediency. Shell Jackets use less material and are faster to complete, so they were certainly more common.

As for the Four Button Sack Coat, again, they require more fabric than a shell jacket, though they are easier to produce. I'm not positive about their commonality throughout the war, but based on photographs and collections, they seem to me to have been pretty rare.

The further west one goes in the Confederacy, the more reliant upon civilian and captured Federal equipment one becomes. There were certainly SOME western theater, dedicated Confederate uniforms, but blending civilian and Federal pieces into a kit is an all-around good move. For many years I reenacted in a number of Southwest events. My kit included a Brownish-Gray Civilian Sack Coat, heavy cotton shirt, Dark Blue Federal Trowsers, and low cut civilian boots. My Accoutrements consisted of .69 cal. Cartridge Box with Buff Leather sling, black belt with roller buckle, and a generic cap box.

My firearm was an 1816 Musket, converted to percussion (original at the time, as repros weren't yet available) with the bayonet sheathed in a custom scabbard, as it was longer than the '42, and '55 / '61 versions.

My headgear consisted of a civilian straw hat that had taken on a beautiful, beehive shape. In fact, this hat was used for ALL of my Confederate impressions for a great many years.

This was my 'Generic' Western Confederate impression, and I used it throughout Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Missouri. Never once was I turned away nor was I reprimanded for my appearance. I attended a great number of mainstream AND campaigner events through those years, and fit in well wherever I made camp.

Hope this helps give you some direction as you refine your Confederate kit.

 

[Tin cup]

I found this photo of me taken some years back of my Confederate impression with civilian coat, military accouterments.

Kevin Dally