M1841 Whitney - A keeper?

[Bill S]

Yesterday I received the first of two, maybe 3 rifles I would like for a CW rifle collection. This Whitney arrived pretty much as expected, the only surprise was that the bore is absolutely smooth and measures 0.615" at the muzzle. I don't know what to expect the barrel to measure, I'm sure it varies some, but is this normal.

My thoughts are; 1) the barrel was bored out to .58 by the armory and it is just badly worn or 2) that it was a Confederate gun and at some time, possibly after the CW, it was bored out and not rifled. (The later thought relates to the "CSA" on the patchbox).

I'm hoping someone can help to set me straight on this.

Also check the photos that show the obliterated cartouches, damaged hammer, ramrod and CSA on the patchbox.

Is this example a good, bad or mediocre choice for a collection?

Thanks!

 

[ewmail15]

Don't replace the hammer if you pick it up. Maybe that area could be welded and ground down to like original shape and aged. Curious to know what happened there. Maybe there was a nipple protector on when someone cocked the hammer back and pulled the trigger - multiple times? Maybe it was tried on another rifle with nipple distance further from the tumbler center?

 

[JOHN42768]

Leave it as is if it was up to me. Original Union and probably captured or salvaged as a Confederate arm. Obvious obliteration of proof marks and added CSA.

 

[originalrebelyell]

Very nice I would leave the hammer as it is.

 

[captaindrew]

Nice piece

 

[Jobe Holiday]

That type of damage to the nose of the hammer cup isn't unusual. I would encourage you to leave it as-is.
The "CSA" decoration is almost assuredly post war.
The bore has been reamed out post war to become a 20 ga. shotgun.
The ram rod is not a M-1841, of any type.
Welcome to the "Wonderful World of Mississippi Rifles"!
J.

 

[Package4]

Yesterday I received the first of two, maybe 3 rifles I would like for a CW rifle collection. This Whitney arrived pretty much as expected, the only surprise was that the bore is absolutely smooth and measures 0.615" at the muzzle. I don't know what to expect the barrel to measure, I'm sure it varies some, but is this normal.

My thoughts are; 1) the barrel was bored out to .58 by the armory and it is just badly worn or 2) that it was a Confederate gun and at some time, possibly after the CW, it was bored out and not rifled. (The later thought relates to the "CSA" on the patchbox).

I'm hoping someone can help to set me straight on this.

Also check the photos that show the obliterated cartouches, damaged hammer, ramrod and CSA on the patchbox.

Is this example a good, bad or mediocre choice for a collection?

Thanks!
View attachment 184726 View attachment 184727 View attachment 184728 View attachment 184729 View attachment 184730 View attachment 184731 View attachment 184732 View attachment 184733 View attachment 184734

This is really subjective and as a starter piece would be OK depending upon price. There are way too many issues with the piece to be considered even NRA Good condition. Ramrod is not original to the piece, CSA is spurious, piece was most likely used as a shotgun post war. We forget that many of these guns had a life after the war.

When you open up the patch box what does the wood inside look like, if you can share a picture that would be great. Also remove the barrel bands and look to see if the wood has been "spliced", many times when used as a shotgun the forend is removed. Are there any carvings in the wood, initials etc?

Again as a starter piece it isn't terrible depending on the asking price, you can always trade up as you get more experience and reference material.

 

[Larryh86GT]

Nice piece for your collection.

 

[UCVRelics]

Leave it "AS IS"

 

[vmicraig]

Every gun, no matter the shape or value, has a story. As long as YOU like it and have interest in it, it's never the wrong choice. You know the old saying "One man's trash is another man's treasure," right? Kinda goes along those lines.....your likes are certainly going to be different than mine. As long as you like it and it makes sense to you to keep in your collection, then by God, keep it! It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, unless you are strictly keeping it based on monetary value, then you should trust the experts! I knowingly overpaid on over half of my collection, which includes 20 different ACW long arms and carbines. I did it because I wanted the items, and didn't give a hoot what someone else might think. Be yourself and be original! Collect what makes YOU happy!
Edited.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

This is a great post looking for information, the kind I like to answer by sharing information.

Here's the type of post I will ignore every time "Hey, I just bought this ....(fill in the blank).... at an auction last night! What's it worth?"
J.

 

[JAGwinn]

I like it. I like it better than a vanilla issue arm that had a mundane career. This Lady has a past! Union for a time, Rebel for a time...and probably a great history to tell.
Very good chance it is a 'one-of-a-kind' or at least a member of a very small sorority of arms.

 

[ikesdad]

This is really subjective and as a starter piece would be OK depending upon price. There are way too many issues with the piece to be considered even NRA Good condition. Ramrod is not original to the piece, CSA is spurious, piece was most likely used as a shotgun post war. We forget that many of these guns had a life after the war.

When you open up the patch box what does the wood inside look like, if you can share a picture that would be great. Also remove the barrel bands and look to see if the wood has been "spliced", many times when used as a shotgun the forend is removed. Are there any carvings in the wood, initials etc?

Again as a starter piece it isn't terrible depending on the asking price, you can always trade up as you get more experience and reference material.

I agree, the "CSA" is not correct compared to others I have seen.

 

[mofederal]

A nice original rifle. Not perfect by any means. Leave it as it is, and be happy that you have an original piece that has a history. Thanks for posting this 1841.

 

[Bill S]

I appreciate everybody's advice and comments, thank you. You gave me a lot to think about and I will consider it all before replacing this rifle. I need to keep in mind that my Civil War gun collection will be limited. This being said, I'm leaning toward looking for a better example, a more original version.

 

[Badgercwcollector]

Either way it will look good on the wall . Enjoy it

 

[johan_steele]

The CSA on the patchbox is totally spurious that I'll wager is a lot closer to 1960 than 1860. It's been mentioned that it was likely bored out to a shotgun post war which is more common than not. I'd be fine w/ such in my collection but admit I'd likely pass on buying such simply because some idiot added that phony CSA stamp.

 

[Bill S]

Agreed

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Ditto on the patch box decoration. IMHO it detracts greatly upon the value of this rifle.

 

[Craig L Barry]

Ditto on the patch box decoration. IMHO it detracts greatly upon the value of this rifle.

The irony of it is, the "CSA" stamp was no doubt added by somebody with the opposite intent.