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Lost Confederate Gold ?

Discussion in 'Civil War History - General Discussion' started by Henry Brown, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Henry Brown

    Henry Brown Corporal

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  3. archieclement

    archieclement First Sergeant

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    All I can offer is opinion because there appears very little factual known.

    During the Civil War both sides at various times believed there was a Northwest Conspiracy with shadowy clandestine para-military organizations such as OAK's Order of American Knights or the KGC Knights of the Golden Circle. In the end both sides apparently came to the conclusion they were largely fantasy. Not to say some may have played in some pseudo secret society, but it apparently had no strength to actually do much of anything

    One is tempted to put it to bed as complete fantasy but there was the Paw Paw rebellion in Missouri in 64, and during Prices raid most any town garrisoned with EMM yielded promptly which can make one wonder if their was some degree of prior cooperation.

    A book I have ends talking about them "In the end, the "Northwestern Conspiracy" remains as convoluted and subject to individual interpretation today as it did at the time." seems pretty much the case

    What has always struck me really odd is when one try's to connect it to Danville and the Confederate Treasury......They were supposed to exist in the Northern states mainly in the Midwest.........so not seeing if they even did exist, a connection to the south and the east where the treasury retreated.............Because in the South secret societies weren't needed, if one wanted to aid the CSA, you just enlisted in the army..............
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  4. Story

    Story First Sergeant

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    Oooh, oooh! I know what happened to it, Mista Kottah!
     
  5. christian soldier

    christian soldier First Sergeant

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    Henry. There is a small paperback or softcover book on the lost Confederate gold written by two treasure hunters from Warrenton, Virginia. I think the title might be something like "Lost Confederate Gold." One of the authors has a direct ancestor who supposedly was apart of the K.G.C. The television show that novelist Brad Melzer hosted did an episode with these two men and Melzer's three colleagues. I cannot remember the name of the show off the top of my head. Sorry. David.
     
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  6. Henry Brown

    Henry Brown Corporal

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    maybe my title should have read "silver" ?
    apart from the gold and specie from the treasury ,this is the first i've heard of the mexican silver.

    "An aspect of the treasure that Clark omitted concerned the fate of 39 kegs of Mexican silver dollars. These were coins that the Confederacy received through the sale of cotton to Mexico. The Mexican coins had been transported to Danville, Virginia, and when the Davis party was forced to move further south, primarily by wagon, the more than 9,000 pounds of silver would have considerably slowed down the procession. For this reason, the coins were almost certainly buried in Danville, and evidence suggests, they remain there today." [ from above link.]

    also this guy mumford. did he buy seed corn to start the confederados in south america ? where did that money come from ?

    and i read some stuff about benjamin's escape and he may have given much of the money to relatives during his escape.

    "With one companion, Benjamin travelled south in a poor carriage, pretending to be a Frenchman who spoke no English. He had some gold with him, and left much of it for the support of relatives."
    "He had money in the United Kingdom as he had, during the war, purchased cotton for transport to Liverpool by blockade runner."
     
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  7. Jimklag

    Jimklag Major Forum Host Silver Patron Trivia Game Winner

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  8. mofederal

    mofederal 1st Lieutenant

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    There was that old Jesse James doc on the history channel about the KGC and lost gold, money caches and the like. Some money was found, but not a lot. People on the run from the law bleed money, plus you had to share with the gang members. I also had a lot of trouble with the credibility of those involved. They were all tied to that Jesse James was not assassinated in 1882 idea. Amazing how none of those people had James family DNA.
     
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  9. Henry Brown

    Henry Brown Corporal

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    yeah i watched the WHOLE thing. grrrr Geraldo ... :furious:
    that money is long gone except for maybe a small cache or two. it is interesting that most all the La./ Miss./Texas leaders were either captured or made it to europe, where mason and slidell were (slidell from La and mason from Va), and found good fortune. when they were released or returned home they all found even greater fortune (slidell did , mason not so much) and most wound up deeply embedded in the cotton industry. does this hint at a conspiracy within the confederacy ? the whole thing was done in like manner to the building of the high seas commerce raiders.
     
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  10. mofederal

    mofederal 1st Lieutenant

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    I know how one of Virginia's rich family's kept their money. They bought some Confederate bonds, but sent most of the money up to Philadelphia, investing it up north with his wife's family. They had a lot of money after the war.
     
  11. W117Monte

    W117Monte Private

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    i saw a movie on this once.... oh wait, it was Time Cop with Van Damme
     
  12. diane

    diane Brev. Brig. Gen'l

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    PawPaw Rebellion? Is that the one concerning the French Catholic in Missouri? This is pretty interesting. Things like that make it more convincing why some people tried to get Forrest to go join up with Jo Shelby to fight in the Trans-Mississippi and why Davis thought they had a chance there. I didn't get to watch the video - maybe it will connect later - but it seems to me the Confederate government didn't have any money to squirrel somewhere anyway! Individual Confederates might be another matter, though...
     
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  13. mofederal

    mofederal 1st Lieutenant

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    The Paw Paw Rebellion happened in the summer of 1864, involved the Enrolled Missouri Militia in Northwest Missouri. The insurrection was led by Confederate recruiter Lt. Colonel John C. Calhoun (Coon) Thornton. The Union forces were the Missouri State Militia from St. Joseph, the EMM from St. Joseph, Weston and Platte City. The Paw Paw name came from the tree of that name, whose leaves were sometimes worn in the hats of the EMM in the area. The loyalty of the EMM in that area was somewhat questionable. During the summer, Commander of the District of North Missouri, Gen. Clinton B. Fisk said the Paw Paw Militia almost to a man "declared" themselves for Thornton. he also said many people in the area, now openly declared themselves for "Jeff."

    The Federal response was swift, and the 2nd Colorado Cavalry and the 15th Kansas Cavalry under Jennison descended on Camden Point in a surprise attack on Col. Thornton and 200-300 of his men. Thornton and his men were having a large picnic in an open pasture near town, when the federal attack occurred. They routed Thornton, killing between 6 and 15, and they captured and executed some of the men. Only 6 men are listed on a nearby memorial. Federal losses were 4 dead and 1 wounded. The numbers differ depending on whom you read. Some US Army sources today call what happened a war crime. Thornton also lost arms, ammunition and powder (said to have been captured at Camp Jackson). A large portion of Camden Point was also burned down. A Jayhawker habit. A second clash between the federals and Thornton at Fredericksburg in Ray County, effectively ended the uprising and the Paw Paw Militia.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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  14. mofederal

    mofederal 1st Lieutenant

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    https://camdenpoint.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/cp-thornton-flag.pdf

    Thornton's men carried a colorful flag having been made from a local lady's cream colored wedding dress. The flag had sixteen stars at one end and the words "Protect Missouri" on the other end, with a red border around the flag. The Protect Missouri flag was presented to Thornton was presented to him at the picnic. The flag still exists today, see link.
     
  15. 5fish

    5fish Captain

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    GOLD! GOLD! bought some people some houses... It only those kegs of silver is missing... The link a good summary that accounts for the lost gold...

    http://www.brucewetterau.com/the-gold-vanishes.html

    THE Last interesting days of the Confederate treasury

    Snippets...

    What is known for certain, is that about midnight, a gang of twenty robbers on horseback swept into the encampment, roused the sleeping escort, and put it to flight in the nearby woods. The robbers broke open the kegs of silver and gold coin, stuffing the booty into everything available--including their pant legs--before riding off into the night. They initially made off with just over $251,000 (about $5 million). Something like $40,000 in coins, which the robbers spilled on the ground, was recovered soon after. The remaining $160,000 on the wagon train eventually made its way to Richmond.
    Meantime, however, ex-Confederate Gen. Edward Porter Alexander organized a posse of ex-Confederate soldiers and local men to recover the stolen bank funds. They arrested some of the thieves, until that is, the locals realized their neighbors were among them. Both sides drew guns as the situation became ugly, forcing Gen. Alexander to relent. He released the thieves, taking them at their word they would return the money the next day.
    Gen. Alexander did recover some $70,000 from robbers and local citizens (including former
    slaves), which he deposited in the old Bank of Georgia building at Washington, along with the $40,000 picked up from the ground. While $111,000 was thus recovered, the thieves had made off with about $179,000. No one knows what happened to that money, and speculation, never proved, has the thieves stashing it in various ways--under fence posts, in creeks, and in the woods--to be retrieved later.


    Snippets...

    Davis and his small escort made it only as far as Irwinville, GA. Shortly after dawn on May 10, Federal troops overran his camp, looted valuables, and arrested Davis and all but one member of Davis’s party (who managed to escape). Reagan was relieved of the $3,500 in Treasury gold, as well as another $2,000 of his own money, and the 16-18,000 pounds worth of English acceptances.
    Meanwhile, Clark and his party continued south. By May 22 they passed west of Gainesville, FL, arriving that day at the plantation of a friend of President Davis’s. Learning of Davis’s capture, they decided their cause was lost. The men then agreed to split up the remaining Treasury funds in Clark’s possession. Each received $1,995, and after subtracting some additional miscellaneous expenses, $6,790 was set aside for Davis’s wife and her family.


    Snippets... You should see what these guys did with the gold...

    According to Millett and White, Semple and Tidball succeeded in getting their hidden cargo of gold only as far as Augusta. There they met with Varina Davis’ brother, William Howell. Howell had worked under Semple as a civilian purchasing agent for the Navy. Perhaps it was the hopeless state of the Confederacy, the thought that the federal government would eventually claim the money, or just the temptation of all that gold, but Semple decided to ignore his orders and split up the horde. Tidball got $27,000 in gold coins, Howell $25,000 in gold bullion, and Semple $34,000 in gold coins. Then they went their separate ways.

    Snippet...

    Virtually all of the known Treasury funds have been accounted for in one way or another with at least a reasonable degree of certainty, the greater part having been expended for what would be considered legitimate expenditures at the close of the war.

    But the whereabouts of two big caches remain in question: the 39 kegs of Spanish reales--worth something like $16 million today, if in fact they ever existed; and the $179,000 in stolen private bank funds--traveling companions, but not legitimately part of the Treasury. And then there is that missing chest of donated jewelry that disappeared while in Federal hands.
     
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