Lincoln (2012)

Ya Sally was absolute on the role....but she has always been great. She fulfilled MY image as to how Mary Todd was. That counts. She alludes to the future when she will be deemed mental. Robert will put her in a 19th century mental hospital for a few months. (not too long, I forget) I have always had a soft spot in me heart for Mary Todd Lincoln. Ya, I thinking academy award also...ya never know however. I have no idea however how you could improve on her performance in this film. None. She is the consummate professional. Months ago I proposed Lady Gaga for this role......har! I was kidding. I think Sally did a bang up job. Man she gets it....and is very intelligent.
From memory,will look up later,a friend that worked for Sanitary Commission from Chicago sprung Mrs. Lincoln. Movie has been on my mind a lot since the viewing.Wondering everything from did the Allen joke come from the recent vacation to Manchester Vt.(Robert Lincoln's Hildene is there to the hope that President Lincoln had a chance to laugh at the Man Trap line in the play. All the people portrayed seem a bit more real today.
 
Was a good movie overall, I was so excited to go see it. The bar I had set for it was really high. After seeing it I think I could have waited till Redbox though. I do think it'll win all kinds of Oscars though.

I wish it showed a little more other stuff in Lincoln's life vs. just focusing on the 13th amendment for 2 1/2 hours.

Maybe it's just me but I was expecting something more like O'Reilly's book outlining his last days and the aftermath. Yeah that book has some factual errors that many of us found, but for the most part the story line keeps you interested and looking for more. I wanted more of the final battles with some good battle scenes, Lincoln's role in the war, and more on the meeting at Appomattox. More on the assasins/conspirators, and their capture, etc..

I did get a good sense of how Lincoln was from the movie, and the acting was excellent in my mind.

Overall was good but wished for more.
 
I ventured out to see this last night. Good movie however a little dry at times...I also see what everyone was saying about Traveler now haha. By the way the guy they used to portray Alexander Stephens looked exactly like him. Kudos to the casting guy for that one.
 
A Civil War Professor Reviews 'Lincoln'

by David Frum Nov 27, 2012 2:30 PM EST

Expired Image Removed
Allen Guelzo is the director of the Civil War studies department at Gettysburg College. He is the author of a magnificent new history of the Civil War and Reconstruction (why these periods are always separated into different volumes baffles me) as well as important studies of Abraham Lincoln's religious views and the emancipation proclamation.
(My 2000 review of Redeemer President can be read here.)
Prof. Guelzo went last night to see Spielberg's Lincoln. Below follows his reaction to the movie:
I am walking out of the multiplex theater in my old home town of Springfield, and already the sold-out audience for the next showing of Steven Spielberg's new Lincoln is queuing up. The sound of something very rare in my movie-going experience is still reverberating in my ears – the sound of an audience applauding. And, from the opening crack of thunder that introduces us to Daniel Day-Lewis's stoop-shouldered Lincoln, there is much worth applauding, even to an empty screen.
Let me play Lincoln biographer first, since I am not, after all, a movie critic. The pains that have been taken in the name of historical authenticity in this movie are worth hailing just on their own terms. Lincoln's White House office (now the Lincoln Bedroom) meticulously replicates the marble fire-place, Lincoln's stand-up pigeonhole desk, the scattering on the cabinet table of the Congressional Globe and a printed speech by Lincoln's postmaster-general Montgomery Blair, the portrait of Andrew Jackson on the wall and the half-tone lithograph of British parliamentarian John Bright on the mantel. The theatre box in which Abraham and Mary Lincoln are listening to Gounod's Faust has the same pattern of wallpaper as the fatal box at Ford's Theatre, and Tad Lincoln learns of his father's shooting while attending a performance of Aladdin. All the familiar figures appear: the staffers Nicolay and Hay, the 13th Amendment's abolitionist floor-manager James Ashley, Navy Secretary Gideon Welles ("Neptune"), Secretary of War Edwin Stanton – even the clerk of the House of Representatives, Edward McPherson, is correctly situated. Ulysses Grant really did have reddish-brown whiskers, and his military secretary really was a full-blooded Seneca sachem, Ely S. Parker. Even the glass-cased amputated leg of the scoundrel-general, Dan Sickles, makes a quick appearance.
It is on Lincoln himself that the most demanding historical exactness is fitted. And Day-Lewis wears it uncommonly well. His reedy-pitched voice reflects the numerous descriptions of Lincoln's voice which described it as a tenor, with almost squeaky accents. He walks flat-footedly, as Lincoln did, wraps himself in a shawl, features only a tuft of beard at his chin (the luxuriant chin-whiskers of his early presidency had been shaved-down by the time of the movie's events, in 1865), and quotes Shakespeare between off-color stories. Day-Lewis captures Lincoln's canniness and his awkwardness, his external simplicity and his internal complexity, a man easy to underestimate but dangerous in the outcome when you do. Even odd snatches of Lincoln's words surface, and not just in the set-piece moments like the Second Inaugural – "flub-dubs" to describe Mary Lincoln's over-budget redecorating projects, the dream of a recurring dream of the ship navigating toward an unknown shore, the theorems of Euclid, the desire to see Jerusalem.
But this is, after all, a movie, a drama, an entertainment (if you will), not a documentary. For all of our wailing about the lack of historical knowledge, awareness, teaching and reading, historical and biographical movies increasingly feel compelled to pay a much heavier duty in period-correct appearances than the costume-dramas of our parents' generation, and it's satisfying to see that Spielberg pays his duty so lavishly. But a preoccupation with authenticity at the expense of story has capsized more than a few historical movies at their dock, and Lincoln has not entirely escaped that problem.
The fundamental concern of Lincoln is the passage of the 13th Amendment, and Lincoln's struggles to make that passage happen in the House of Representatives. This is, in other words, partly a courtroom drama and partly a re-incarnation of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. And there is great drama to be found in the floor-fights and speeches which led to the 13th Amendment's adoption on January 31, 1865. David Straithern, who unquestioningly deserves a Best Supporting Oscar for his depiction of William Seward, conducts the back-room log-rolling necessary to assemble the requisite two-thirds majority, seconded by Tommy Lee Jones as Thaddeus Stevens (whose rapid-fire verbal savagery still manages to remind me more of Agent K than the Old Commoner). The bad guys appear in the form of George Hunt Pendleton (the disappointed Democratic nominee for vice-president in 1864) and Fernando Wood, the sleazy New York Democrat. Happily, when the final vote is taken, the bad guys lose. Spielberg invents a clever cut-away moment for the amendment's roll-call vote: Speaker of the House Schuyler Colfax is in the process of announcing the amendment's passage when the camera blinks onto Lincoln, at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, hearing bells and artillery salutes beginning to go off.
But good as this story is, Spielberg cannot resist trying to make it better by heaping several layers of counter-point on top of it. There is, for one thing, the Confederate peace commissioners whom Francis Preston Blair (in a hefty performance by Hal Holbrook, himself one of the great screen Lincolns) begs Lincoln to meet with. Blair's genuinely eloquent plea for Lincoln to concentrate on negotiating peace and to stopping the killing sets up a conflict between Lincoln's desire to end the war, and the knowledge that an end to the war will pull all the wind out of the sails of the 13th Amendment, since the amendment is being sold in Congress as a measure which, however radical in racial terms, will force the war to a conclusion. If Lincoln can get peace without needing the amendment, why have the amendment at all? Straithern's Seward puts this dilemma very neatly when he asks Lincoln bluntly: do you want to end the war or get the amendment?
The Democrats in Congress, who denounce the amendment as the opened-gate to black equality (and even women's voting), would like nothing so much as to welcome the Confederate commissioners to Washington. But here is where Lincoln is profoundly torn. He really does want the amendment and peace. Yet another counterpoint emerges here in the person of Robert Todd Lincoln, his eldest son, who wants to join the Army. But Mary Lincoln will hear nothing of so monstrous a risk, and so both Robert and his mother become another argument in favor of peace.
On the recommendation of General Grant, Lincoln sets up a meeting with the peace commissioners. He hopes to keep this under wraps, so as not to feed the Democrats' campaign against the amendment, even to the point of concealing it from Seward. But – enter another line of counterpoint -- the word leaks out all the same, and Lincoln escapes a debacle over the vote for the amendment only by issuing a written assurance that there are no Confederate commissioners in Washington. (They were not, of course, in Washington, but cooling their heels at Hampton Roads, where Lincoln would shortly meet with them, but no one in the Democratic caucus seems to have caught-on to Lincoln's lawyer-like evasion).
In the end, the righteous triumph. But the interweaving of these story lines, while intended to heighten the conflict between peace and justice, actually burden it down. Like Spielberg's Amistad (which Lincoln so often visually resembles, with its smoky interiors and heavy shadows), Lincoln is a tremendously long and talky movie – a good two-and-half hours – a full half-hour of which might have easily ended-up on the cutting-room floor without missing a beat. For instance: the Robert Todd Lincoln sequences merely highlight what has already been highlighted; the climactic vote on passage of the amendment could have cut at once to the Second Inaugural without costing anything. Even the opening scene, with the quartet of soldiers reciting the Gettysburg Address, really does nothing to launch the overall trajectory of Lincoln, and the two brief battlefield moments are little more than contrived interjections of emotional commentary (which is all the more surprising, coming from the director of Saving Private Ryan).
Even so, the talkiness of Lincoln is high-quality talkiness. Spielberg's screenwriter, Tony Kushner, puts into Lincoln's mouth an explanation of the legal technicalities of the presidential war powers, the Emancipation Proclamation, and the need for a constitutional amendment to abolish slavery which is so clear that Lincoln himself could have admired it. Lincoln's rebuff to Thaddeus Stevens' radicalism, staged between the two in the basement kitchen of the White House, is built around the image of a compass. That compass has a needle which points only one way, Lincoln says, to a clear and unfailing north, and in just the uncompromising way Stevens wants to conduct politics. The hazard for the traveler is that the north-pointing needle fails to indicate the swamps in the way of getting there. Stevens and Lincoln both understand this, and how it will likely make them enemies in the conduct of Reconstruction. (As Lincoln tells Grant, he wants no hangings after the war, and if Jeff Davis wants to go in exile, Lincoln will let him, rather than remorselessly tracking the arch-traitor down). But for the moment, the Lincoln and Stevens will work together, because both of them have worked in the direction of this amendment all of their lives. Which, by the way, introduces yet another sub-plot to Lincoln, about the necessity of unholy political means to obtain holy political ends. In a very great way, this is not a movie about the hold-your-nose unpleasantness of democracy; it's about how the unpleasantness is not nearly so unpleasant as it is portrayed by democracy's cultured despisers.
Cumbersome and over-complicated as it is, Lincoln is still filled with a certain robust joy in the rough-and-tumble of American politics. In an age when so many people puffingly complain about gridlock, lobbying, campaign money, and inefficiency, Lincoln embraces all of them, and good comes out of it. It is, despite its over-length, a movie of confidence – confidence in politics, confidence in a very skilled yet principled politician, confidence in the self-created mazes of our representative democracy. And Day-Lewis's Lincoln, haggard but smiling, tormented and yet fundamentally serene in his knowledge of doing right, carries even the slowest and most awkward moments toward a fundamental affirmation of truth and purpose.
The queue has grown longer even as I think about this. I want to tell them that Lincoln will be worth the wait, and worth the length. They are about to see what we so often deplore as mere sausage-making, and they will love it. They will see, in politics, how law and justice embrace. I step out into the chilly autumn evening, rejoicing.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/27/a-civil-war-professor-reviews-lincoln.html
 
The simplest analogies are often the best. "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" features no battles or gunfire, but my government students still cheer when Jimmy Stewart beats the bad guys through the unforgettable use of filibuster. Government can be fun, my friends, even without bloodshed!
 
Finally saw it today and loved it. Almost like spending time with the real Lincoln, DDL was so convincing. Excellent supporting cast (I really loved seeing Bruce McGill as Stanton and Hal Holbrook as Blair). Two and a half hours went by so fast I couldn't believe it. Dammed fine film.
 
This is the show Tad was attending, at Grover's Theater Washington, D.C., Friday, April 14, 1865:

Expired Image Removed

This is beyond cool. Tks!!!! Do you have this ticket or is this just on the internet. This (the real one) has to rare as all hell. Very neat post.
 
This is beyond cool. Tks!!!! Do you have this ticket or is this just on the internet. This (the real one) has to rare as all hell. Very neat post.
Not a ticket -- newspaper advert, via LoC news archives, far right column.

Also, just noticed -- next left column, lower down, announces that General Grant would be attending Ford's Theater that night with the Lincolns -- which of course changed to Clara Harris and her fiance, Major Rathbone, at the last minute.
 
Not a ticket -- newspaper advert, via LoC news archives, far right column.

Also, just noticed -- next left column, lower down, announces that General Grant would be attending Ford's Theater that night with the Lincolns -- which of course changed to Clara Harris and her fiance, Major Rathbone, at the last minute.

Thanks for sharing, Andy. Is it true that John Wilkes Booth sent his name and the names of the other assassination conspirators explaining what they planned to do to the Washington Daily National Intelligencer? This story is mentioned in the movie The Day lincoln Was Shot.
 
Thanks for sharing, Andy. Is it true that John Wilkes Booth sent his name and the names of the other assassination conspirators explaining what they planned to do to the Washington Daily National Intelligencer? This story is mentioned in the movie The Day lincoln Was Shot.
I've never heard that.

Booth reportedly learned of the Lincolns' plans to attend the theater on the 14th, not from the paper, but when he stopped by the theater around midday that day to pick up his mail/messages.
 
I've never heard that.

Booth reportedly learned of the Lincolns' plans to attend the theater on the 14th, not from the paper, but when he stopped by the theater around midday that day to pick up his mail/messages.

Yes, and this fact is portrayed just as you recall it in The Day Lincoln Was Shot.

And In the very next scene in the movie featuring Booth, he and the other conspirators (Payne, Atzerodt, Herold) are at a table having their last meeting finalizing their assassination plans. They drink a toast to success, and then he tells them he has sent word of the plot and their names to the National Intelligencer (I believe it was a pro-Confederate newspaper) because he believes they are about to committ a heroic act. "There will be statues of us in every Southern town," he tells them. "And no matter what happens, we will never die." The scene is at 9:48 in this YouTube link.

 
Yes, and this fact is portrayed just as you recall it in The Day Lincoln Was Shot.

And In the very next scene in the movie featuring Booth, he and the other conspirators (Payne, Atzerodt, Herold) are at a table having their last meeting finalizing their assassination plans.
I guess I'd missed that or forgotten -- it's discussed in some detail in Swanson's Manhunt.
 
I saw it last night in Vancouver when we were down for the afternoon/evening. I haven't fully crystallised my thoughts but, at the moment, I think it was a good film, probably a very good one, but I'm not sure about a great one just yet. Need to see it again really.

The casting was pretty amazing. Some of the actors were just incredible in their likeness to the real thing (U.S. Grant, Alexander Stephens for instance) and it was uniformly well acted. Tommy Lee Jones up for best supporting actor I should imagine. My wife thought he was great, though I thought he had an easy(ish) task with a character like Thaddeus Stevens.

I did think Daniel Day-Lewis did an incredible impression of Lincoln. Not sure he got quite enough of Lincoln's deep melancholy or the incredible pressure that was on him throughout the war but it was definitely some performance, another Oscar winner probably (not that I've seen much else recently so not sure of the opposition).

My wife (knowing next to nothing about the topic ) thought the anti-abolition faction weren't well explained. I knew why they were anti-abolition but she didn't think they were given much explanation. She thought they were almost cardboard cutouts - mostly foolish, cowardly, easily persuaded, etc. Didn't really explain that there were all kinds of reasons, some quite rational (wrong, but rational) for opposing abolition and that many were very principled (wrong, but principled).

I also felt the opposition in general was also maybe too lightly brushed over, for instance the scenes of general rejoicing when the Amendment passed, the impression one could get that the Amendment and abolition were almost universally welcomed when I very much doubt they were (same could be said about all the exclamations to Lincoln of "the people love you").

It was Spielberg and I expect that from him though and I had reservations that it would be that way before I went to see it. I don't think he does nuance very well, he's much more at home with black and white (no pun intended). His message was that this was the 'Second American Revolution' and that the US was now beginning to live up to the ideals of the Declaration of Independence. He's correct in this but that only tells a part of the story. It felt, at times, a little too much like "well, that's that problem sorted."

In terms of the film rather than history I thought the opening scene (in fact maybe the two opening scenes) were poor. I found the first scene in particular quite... unrealistic. Spielberg scene setting I guess, he (or the scriptwriter) obviously wanted to bookend the film with the Gettysburg Address and the Second Inaugural but that was a very contrived way to do it and I'm not sure it was even needed.

The film was a very slow burner for that opening half hour or so and also didn't seem to know when to end. Could probably have been 30mins or so shorter without really taking anything away from it. These were my only real reservations about it as an actual film, it could have been tighter. My criticisms are mostly historical and about over simplification which is probably unfair given that it is, ultimately, a piece of entertainment.

My opinions only of course and very much my first thoughts. Like I said, need to see it again.
 
I"m finding bits of agreement in all posts from those that have seen the film. Looking forward to posts from valued members who are waiting for the DVD or Blue Ray.This movie is a "**** house lawyer's delight",right up our ally!
 
It seems to me that you're looking for a documentary on Lincoln's life and the Civil War. This movie is not that documentary. As you've gleaned from reviews, it's a story about the struggle (political and otherwise) to pass the 13th Amendment. It's an important story, and Abraham Lincoln is the central and most important character. I suppose that's why it's called Lincoln, although if Spielberg would have asked me it would have a catchier title.

Movies need to have tight, compelling stories to sell. This is the one they chose. I personally think it was a good choice. Documentaries don't make it into theaters; they don't make millions of dollars. As a lover of history, I'm thankful Spielberg and Co. wrote a tight script that can draw the likes of Daniel Day-Lewis.
Excellent post. It says about all I planned to say myself. As a story it was riveting. The pace was good, the cinematography and direction excellent, the story line compelling and coherent. The acting top notch, particularly Daniel Day-Lewis and Sally Field. I am not a movie goer, but I would think it is sure to get a host of Academy Award nominations such as Best Picture, Best Director (Spielberg), Best Original Screenplay, Best Actor (Lewis), Best Actress (Field), Best Supporting Actor (Jones), Best Cinematography, Best Musical Score (Williams). By that count it is 8. Am I missing anything? A few things didn't ring true for me, such as the colored troops interaction with Lincoln at the beginning, but I understand the reason to do this was to set the stage for the theme to follow.
 

Learn About Us
About CivilWarTalk
Contact the Webmaster
Meet the Staff
Link to CivilWarTalk
Join Our Community
Register
Browse Forums
View Today's Discussions
Search the Forum
Get Help
FAQ
Student Guide
Forum Rules & Etiquette
Copyright / DMCA

     Contact Us CivilwarTalk on Facebook CivilWarTalk on YouTube CivilWarTalk on Twitter RSS Feed

Bringing the American Civil War and More to Life.
© 1999 - , CIVILWARTALK, LLC - Site Version 10.0

SlaveryTalk.com - SecessionTalk.com - CivilWarTalk.com - ReconstructionTalk.com
Back
Top