Lee Lee's prophetic quote worth repeating

[Lost Cause]

"They do not know what they say. If it came to a conflict of arms, the war will last at least four years. Northern politicians will not appreciate the determination and pluck of the South, and Southern politicians do not appreciate the numbers, resources, and patient perseverance of the North. Both sides forget that we are all Americans. I foresee that our country will pass through a terrible ordeal, a necessary expiation, perhaps, for our national sins."-----

Robert E. Lee, May 5, 1861.

 

[brass napoleon]

A good sentiment, but probably never said by Lee, unless you can provide a primary source?

See this analysis:

https://almostchosenpeople.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/lee-the-prophet/

It is, however, very similar to what Sam Houston said (and William T. Sherman too, for that matter).

 

[Lost Cause]

Actually from this forum:

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/robert-e-lee-quote.82567/

Thanks for further clarity.

 

[IcarusPhoenix]

Do you know where this comes from? I find it all over the internet, but can't find anyone who knows where he said/wrote it.

Edit: I see brass napoleon got there first.

 

[cash]

A good sentiment, but probably never said by Lee, unless you can provide a primary source?

See this analysis:

https://almostchosenpeople.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/lee-the-prophet/

It is, however, very similar to what Sam Houston said (and William T. Sherman too, for that matter).

There is no primary source for it, but there is a source, Rev. John William Jones:

https://books.google.com/books?id=g...and patient perseverance of the North&f=false

Jones himself didn't hear Lee say this, but is relating what he claims he was told.

 

[Henry Whitworth]

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." -Abraham Lincoln

 

[rhettbutler1865]

I don't care if it was purportedly said by Lee--It has always fascinated me! (I want to believe he said it!)

 

[Lost Cause]

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." -Abraham Lincoln

Isn't that the truth

 

[Petethegreek]

"They do not know what they say. If it came to a conflict of arms, the war will last at least four years. Northern politicians will not appreciate the determination and pluck of the South, and Southern politicians do not appreciate the numbers, resources, and patient perseverance of the North. Both sides forget that we are all Americans. I foresee that our country will pass through a terrible ordeal, a necessary expiation, perhaps, for our national sins."-----

Robert E. Lee, May 5, 1861.

This quote shows Lee's wisdom and is certainly a very prophetic quote as it is a pretty accurate prediction of the nature of the war. In 1861, most people on both sides thought the war would end quickly. Sherman was another who predicted a longer war and was actually deemed insane for expressing the idea.

 

[cash]

The quote is highly questionable. Jones doesn't tell us who told allegedly told him about it. The fact that it came out years after the war, and after Lee's death, indicates it was probably fabricated as part of the movement to make Lee seem all-knowing.

 

[Henry Whitworth]

I immediately thought of what Sam Houston actually did say when I read this supposed Lee quote.

"If you go to war with the United States, you will never conquer her, as she has the money and the men. If she does not whip you by guns, powder, and steel, she will starve you to death. It will take the flower of the country — the young men."

The supposed Lee quote strikes me as altogether too perfect, as something constructed after the fact and attributed to him. I don't buy that he would have been talking about "national sins" and "our country" as though north and south have already been reunified.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

SSSHHH! Don't tell Hanna, but lots of things Sherman said were deemed "insane." OH-OH! Hi Hanna!--------

 

[brass napoleon]

The quote is highly questionable. Jones doesn't tell us who told allegedly told him about it. The fact that it came out years after the war, and after Lee's death, indicates it was probably fabricated as part of the movement to make Lee seem all-knowing.

Yeah, there's something not quite right with a prophetic quote told for the first time 10 years after the "prophesy" came true.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

Yeah, there's something not quite right with a prophetic quote told for the first time 10 years after the "prophesy" came true.

Just for the record--It is too good to be true...I just want to believe he said it...

 

[brass napoleon]

Just for the record--It is too good to be true...I just want to believe he said it...

Well he certainly said similar things, as in the letter mentioned in the link in post #2, and also as in this letter:

"The South in my opinion has been aggrieved by the acts of the North as you say. I feel the aggression, & am willing to take every proper step for redress. It is the principle I contend for, not individual or private benefit. As an American citizen I take great pride in my country, her prosperity & institutions & would defend any State if her rights were invaded. But I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, & I am willing to sacrifice every thing but honour for its preservation. I hope therefore that all Constitutional means will be exhausted, before there is a resort

to force. Secession is nothing but revolution. The framers of our Constitution never exhausted so much labour, wisdom & forbearance in its formation & surrounded it with so many guards & securities, if it was intended to be broken by every member of the confederacy at will. It was intended for pepetual [sic] union, so expressed in the preamble, & for the establishment of a government, not a compact, which can only be dissolved by revolution or the consent of all the people in convention assembled. It is idle to talk of secession. Anarchy would have been established & not a government, by Washington

, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison & the other patriots of the Revolution. In 1808 when the New England States resisted Mr Jeffersons Imbargo law & the Hartford Convention assembled secession was termed treason by Virga statesmen. What can it be now? Still a union that can only be maintained by swords & bayonets, & in which strife & civil war are to take the place of brotherly love & kindness, has no charm for me. I shall mourn for my country, & for the welfare & progress of mankind. If the Union is dissolved & the government disrupted, I shall return to my native State & share the miseries of my people & save in her defence will draw my sword on none.

Source: http://leearchive.wlu.edu/reference/essays/rachal/index.txt​

 

[rhettbutler1865]

Well he certainly said similar things, as in the letter mentioned in the link in post #2, and also as in this letter:

"The South in my opinion has been aggrieved by the acts of the North as you say. I feel the aggression, & am willing to take every proper step for redress. It is the principle I contend for, not individual or private benefit. As an American citizen I take great pride in my country, her prosperity & institutions & would defend any State if her rights were invaded. But I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, & I am willing to sacrifice every thing but honour for its preservation. I hope therefore that all Constitutional means will be exhausted, before there is a resort

to force. Secession is nothing but revolution. The framers of our Constitution never exhausted so much labour, wisdom & forbearance in its formation & surrounded it with so many guards & securities, if it was intended to be broken by every member of the confederacy at will. It was intended for pepetual [sic] union, so expressed in the preamble, & for the establishment of a government, not a compact, which can only be dissolved by revolution or the consent of all the people in convention assembled. It is idle to talk of secession. Anarchy would have been established & not a government, by Washington

, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison & the other patriots of the Revolution. In 1808 when the New England States resisted Mr Jeffersons Imbargo law & the Hartford Convention assembled secession was termed treason by Virga statesmen. What can it be now? Still a union that can only be maintained by swords & bayonets, & in which strife & civil war are to take the place of brotherly love & kindness, has no charm for me. I shall mourn for my country, & for the welfare & progress of mankind. If the Union is dissolved & the government disrupted, I shall return to my native State & share the miseries of my people & save in her defence will draw my sword on none.

Source: http://leearchive.wlu.edu/reference/essays/rachal/index.txt​

Fantastic! And I don't have to "want" to believe this one! What a NOBLE MAN! Thank you, brass!

 

[Lost Cause]

The most competent generals are often the most reluctant to engage in armed conflict until sides are drawn.

 

[ErnieMac]

In his four volume biography, Robert E. Lee, Douglas Southall Freeman had the following to say about Jones' Personal Reminiscences, Anecdotes and Letters of General Robert E. Lee: "Many score letters and countless anecdotes, a source-book rather than a biography. In using this work, caution must be exercised in citing Lee's words, as Doctor Jones was a very poor copyist." Of Jones' other work, Life and Letters of Robert Edward Lee, Soldier and Man, Freeman wrote "Incomplete and padded with reports but containing more of Lee's ante-bellum letters than any other book." Freeman did cite both of Jones' books on a number of occasions, but did not include the statement in the OP. He does say in Volume 1, Chapter 28, footnote 8 "For a prediction that the war would last four years, see an anonymous and perhaps in part apocryphal account of an interview with some would‑be mediators, quoted in Jones, 483."

Edit: Chapter number - originally read Chapter 27, but Chaper 28 is correct.

 

[hanna260]

Well he certainly said similar things, as in the letter mentioned in the link in post #2, and also as in this letter:

"The South in my opinion has been aggrieved by the acts of the North as you say. I feel the aggression, & am willing to take every proper step for redress. It is the principle I contend for, not individual or private benefit. As an American citizen I take great pride in my country, her prosperity & institutions & would defend any State if her rights were invaded. But I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, & I am willing to sacrifice every thing but honour for its preservation. I hope therefore that all Constitutional means will be exhausted, before there is a resort

to force. Secession is nothing but revolution. The framers of our Constitution never exhausted so much labour, wisdom & forbearance in its formation & surrounded it with so many guards & securities, if it was intended to be broken by every member of the confederacy at will. It was intended for pepetual [sic] union, so expressed in the preamble, & for the establishment of a government, not a compact, which can only be dissolved by revolution or the consent of all the people in convention assembled. It is idle to talk of secession. Anarchy would have been established & not a government, by Washington

, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison & the other patriots of the Revolution. In 1808 when the New England States resisted Mr Jeffersons Imbargo law & the Hartford Convention assembled secession was termed treason by Virga statesmen. What can it be now? Still a union that can only be maintained by swords & bayonets, & in which strife & civil war are to take the place of brotherly love & kindness, has no charm for me. I shall mourn for my country, & for the welfare & progress of mankind. If the Union is dissolved & the government disrupted, I shall return to my native State & share the miseries of my people & save in her defence will draw my sword on none.

Source: http://leearchive.wlu.edu/reference/essays/rachal/index.txt​

I mean. Lee was a smart man. As BillO said in another thread- he was a quite sensible fellow. And someone who knew what war was. So, it doesn't surprise me that he did say some things that sound prophetic.

SSSHHH! Don't tell Hanna, but lots of things Sherman said were deemed "insane." OH-OH! Hi Hanna!--------

Relax. I don't bite. Well- if you insult Patrick Cleburne I might.

 

[4065921]

This is not a quote from Lee howerver it as "propthetic" as it comes to the War. Several years ago I was doing some research and came across this quote from non-other than General Winfield Scott written March 30 1861. Genera Scott's views on the dire nature of a civil war within the states were presented in correspondence he had with President James Buchannan; Scott believed that the war with Mexico would, in comparison with ours, "sink into mere child's play." Scott stated, "An attempt to conquer the seceded states might be done in two or three years, would require 300, 000 disciplined men, incur tremendous loss of life on both sides, and cost at least a quarter of a billion dollars. He also stated that the destruction of life and property, on the other side, would be frightful, however perfect the moral discipline of the invaders."

Moore, John Bassett, ed. The Works of James Buchanan, Comprising His Speeches, State Papers, and Private Correspondence. Vol. 11, Pg 300-302 http://deila.dickinson.edu/buchanan/resources/fulltext.htm#