Lee Lee is overrated.

Good International diplomacy by the colonials resulted in Franch and spain joining the war against the Uk... and the UK lsot.

Bad international diplomacy and a very different international situation resulted in the CSA never getting the needed support from the great powers.

None of this was the result of the actions of Washington... or Lee.

I respectfully disagree. Success on the battlefield breeds external aid. Washington, a great general, understood this Strategic point. The win at Saratoga was the convincing win that solidified France's support. Lee hope that Gettysburg would do the same for the Rebels, but he failed.
 
Sheridan? Oh, don't get me started! :running:

Back to Lee, though. I just want a little clarification - do you think whatever Lee won was due to facing lousy Union generals?


Yes, as I stated in my original post. In the beginning he faced generals that were not the best. When he faced better generals-he consistently lost.
 
Hooker and Burnside was not the USA' best. However, Lee defeated them. Lee could not beat Meade or Grant. Additionally, Sheridan was leaps and bounds better than Forest.

Speaking of Cold Harbor, Lee certainly beat Meade at Cold Harbor.
 
Speaking of Cold Harbor, Lee certainly beat Meade at Cold Harbor.


Not Grant who was overall responsible for the Overland Campaign. Grant knew that Meade may have not been up to task. That is why we had a field command
Again, what makes Lee great?
 
Saratoga wasn't Washington's win - Trenton was. That's where the French decided it might be worth it not to pull out. Washington was coming off a bad losing streak - he had to win.
Neither Forrest nor Sheridan was a cavalryman.

Ahem! (Coughs...) Afraid I have to say Sheridan was a cavalryman but I doesn't have to say he was a good one!
 
Making quick, some may argue implusive decisions do not make a great leader. A great general has the acumen to succeed. Yes, there will bet set backs. However, the great ones figure out a way to win. Please, besides his men loving him. What did he do that was remarkable?
He held the Army of the Potomac at bay and kept them from crossing the Rappahannock since the War began and out of Richmond.
Regards
David
 
Saratoga wasn't Washington's win - Trenton was. That's where the French decided it might be worth it not to pull out. Washington was coming off a bad losing streak - he had to win.


Ahem! (Coughs...) Afraid I have to say Sheridan was a cavalryman but I doesn't have to say he was a good one!


Again, Saratoga brought the French support. Why was Lee great? No one has answered.
 
He held the Army of the Potomac at bay and kept them from crossing the Rappahannock since the War began and out of Richmond.
Regards
David

How did the Army of the Potomac get Lee to Surrender at Appomattox? They crossed the Rappahannock.
 
I respectfully disagree. Success on the battlefield breeds external aid. Washington, a great general, understood this Strategic point. The win at Saratoga was the convincing win that solidified France's support. Lee hope that Gettysburg would do the same for the Rebels, but he failed.
The French was looking for payback. They just needed to be sure the colonials would not make peace and leave them to deal with a war alone.

A totally difference situation then what the south faced.
 
The French was looking for payback. They just needed to be sure the colonials would not make peace and leave them to deal with a war alone.

A totally difference situation then what the south faced.


I do not understand your point? Saratoga garnered the French's support.
 
Not Grant who was overall responsible for the Overland Campaign. Grant knew that Meade may have not been up to task. That is why we had a field command
Again, what makes Lee great?

Again, I don't argue he was great, nor do I argue he wasn't great.

Why do you say Grant knew Meade may not have been up to task? If that's the case, shouldn't he have replaced Meade?
 
Yes, as I stated in my original post. In the beginning he faced generals that were not the best. When he faced better generals-he consistently lost.

Ok! Thanks. It took the Union a bit of time to sift the chaff from the wheat, but it worked the other way for the South. They lost a large number of very good commanders and could not replace them - the Old Army could lose commanders and pull up new ones from the bottom. That's exactly what happened to Grant. He came to the top by Lincoln's support. So, we have to consider that aspect which is something Lee had no control over. Also, generals like Stonewall Jackson knew the South had only a certain window of time to make their cause stick - once that closed, the North would roll over them. He was for a very aggressive war, one meant to be over and won before the South took too much loss. Lee understood that, too. Perhaps this would have happened if Lee had been given overall command far sooner.

I've often heard the argument that general/admiral so-n-so never met his match so of course he was victorious - hence, overrated. It's rather a non-starter. If that's all the enemy's got, that's what you fight. Sooner or later, you will meet your match! If a commander comes to believe he has no match, that's just as bad. When Lee heard it was Meade he was facing for Gettysburg, he sat up and took note. "He will not make a mistake before me, and I had better not make one before him!" Lee didn't have any qualms or reservations about taking on Meade, Grant or anybody else - he adjusted his plans accordingly.
 
Saratoga wasn't Washington's win - Trenton was. That's where the French decided it might be worth it not to pull out. Washington was coming off a bad losing streak - he had to win.


Ahem! (Coughs...) Afraid I have to say Sheridan was a cavalryman but I doesn't have to say he was a good one!

No, he wasn't. He didn't perform the functions of cavalry. He used the mounted arm as a mobile strike force more like mounted infantry than cavalry.
 
They did not start a cavalrymen. However, the became cavalrymen. Sheridan was better. Again, before we are distracted, why is Lee great?

Neither was a cavalryman ever.

Again, I don't argue Lee was great, nor do I argue he wasn't great.
 
Ok! Thanks. It took the Union a bit of time to sift the chaff from the wheat, but it worked the other way for the South. They lost a large number of very good commanders and could not replace them - the Old Army could lose commanders and pull up new ones from the bottom. That's exactly what happened to Grant. He came to the top by Lincoln's support. So, we have to consider that aspect which is something Lee had no control over. Also, generals like Stonewall Jackson knew the South had only a certain window of time to make their cause stick - once that closed, the North would roll over them. He was for a very aggressive war, one meant to be over and won before the South took too much loss. Lee understood that, too. Perhaps this would have happened if Lee had been given overall command far sooner.

I've often heard the argument that general/admiral so-n-so never met his match so of course he was victorious - hence, overrated. It's rather a non-starter. If that's all the enemy's got, that's what you fight. Sooner or later, you will meet your match! If a commander comes to believe he has no match, that's just as bad. When Lee heard it was Meade he was facing for Gettysburg, he sat up and took note. "He will not make a mistake before me, and I had better not make one before him!" Lee didn't have any qualms or reservations about taking on Meade, Grant or anybody else - he adjusted his plans accordingly.


I agree with you. Jackson was a better Commander than Lee. Again, why was Lee great?
 

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