Lee Lee is overrated.

[cash]

Yes, he did - but it was a too little too late thing. We're doing it again! I have to stop associating with you...you have a pocket full of sparkly things!

No evidence at all of Mahone stopping it. In fact, there is evidence that Mahone did nothing to stop the executions of blacks who had surrendered. "The Confederates could not stop killing blacks even after they had surrendered. Many white Rebels were infuriated because they received wounds inflicted by black adversaries. As the rage of battle merged with racial anger, the killing continued. Many Southerners stalked among the death-filled bombproofs, looking for blacks who were still alive. Even as the prisoners were moved to the rear, some Southerners took advantage of their helplessness. Isaac Gaskins of the 29th USCT was shot after he surrendered by a Rebel who 'said he did not recognize any d**n negro as a prisoner of war and that I would never get back to my brother Yankees alive.' The close-range blast tore away Gaskin's cartridge box and seriously injured his hip, but he survived. One observer believed that not more than half of the black prisoners taken in the crater ever reached the rear areas. John C. Haskell managed to save at least one prisoner when he noticed a Confederate who seemed about to shoot a black sergeant. The man refused to stop when ordered, and Haskell called on other Rebels nearby for help. They stopped the man and placed him under arrest. Black bodies lay along the line of march taken by the Federal prisoners, according to Willie Pegram." [Earl J. Hess, Into the Crater: The Mine Attack at Petersburg, pp. 192-193]

 

[cash]

Pickett's charge of course.

It wasn't a screw-up. Based on what Lee knew at the time, it was a reasonable decision.

 

[cash]

I have and I agree with longstreet "It is my opinion that no 15,000 men ever arrayed for battle can take that position".

Did you walk the actual route they took or did you just walk from the Virginia Memorial to the Angle, which is not the route they took?

 

[diane]

No evidence at all of Mahone stopping it. In fact, there is evidence that Mahone did nothing to stop the executions of blacks who had surrendered. "The Confederates could not stop killing blacks even after they had surrendered. Many white Rebels were infuriated because they received wounds inflicted by black adversaries. As the rage of battle merged with racial anger, the killing continued. Many Southerners stalked among the death-filled bombproofs, looking for blacks who were still alive. Even as the prisoners were moved to the rear, some Southerners took advantage of their helplessness. Isaac Gaskins of the 29th USCT was shot after he surrendered by a Rebel who 'said he did not recognize any d**n negro as a prisoner of war and that I would never get back to my brother Yankees alive.' The close-range blast tore away Gaskin's cartridge box and seriously injured his hip, but he survived. One observer believed that not more than half of the black prisoners taken in the crater ever reached the rear areas. John C. Haskell managed to save at least one prisoner when he noticed a Confederate who seemed about to shoot a black sergeant. The man refused to stop when ordered, and Haskell called on other Rebels nearby for help. They stopped the man and placed him under arrest. Black bodies lay along the line of march taken by the Federal prisoners, according to Willie Pegram." [Earl J. Hess, Into the Crater: The Mine Attack at Petersburg, pp. 192-193]

I get big red letters on my posts if I talk off-topic - red hurts my eyes!

 

[diane]

As stated before, Lee was in command of the Rebel's efforts when the Army of the Potomac crossed the Rappahannock and defeated COL Lee. Why is he revered?

You'll have to ask somebody who reveres him. Good night! You're a good sport, US.

 

[Ole Miss]

How did the Army of the Potomac get Lee to Surrender at Appomattox? They crossed the Rappahannock.

It took the Federals to cross the river was Point I had wanted to make. Holding the AOTP 2 years was essential to the hoped for success of the Confederacy.

You are so busy with all of your new friends so I will say good bye for now. Perhaps you could come over to the Shiloh Forum and we can the perfromace of generals in that battle?
Regards
David

 

[thomas aagaard]

I do not understand your point? Saratoga garnered the French's support.

The french was looking for a fight, they just needed to be sure the colonials didn't make peace. So they where not that hard to get to join the war. The result is that the colonials did not need to win... just prove they where willing to stay in the fight.

In 1861 the UK was not looking for a fight, they had just come out of the Crimean war and did not want a new one.
They had no real reason to support the south and the Union gave them plenty of reason to stay out of it.
(including a blockade that undermined the 1856 treaty of Paris... something the UK really liked)

 

[Gene Green]

Did you walk the actual route they took or did you just walk from the Virginia Memorial to the Angle, which is not the route they took?

I do not recall. It was almost 50 years ago and I cannot now remember much of that trip. Two things that my dad made sure impressed me were pickets charge and the fight at little round top. I still remember viewing the scenes from the top. So I did not walk the walk but I did talk the talk with my dad and witnessed the scene [site] from the yankee perspective in the center.

 

[Gene Green]

I do not recall. It was almost 50 years ago and I cannot now remember much of that trip. Two things that my dad made sure impressed me were pickets charge and the fight at little round top. I still remember viewing the scenes from the top. So I did not walk the walk but I did talk the talk with my dad and witnessed the scene from the yankee perspective in the center.

And when I think on it , this year may be the fiftieth anniversary of my visit.

On a side note: my grandparents lived in Carlisle pa and directly behind their house was a cemetery with the grave site of molly pitcher.

 

[Jamieva]

As stated before, Lee was in command of the Rebel's efforts when the Army of the Potomac crossed the Rappahannock and defeated COL Lee. Why is he revered?

So crossing the river is the basis for not being a great general? You keep moving the goalposts.

How many times did the AotP try to cross that river and not make it? How long did it take?

 

[jackt62]

His historical reputation had been inflated by the Lost Cause movement which made him into an icon of the confederacy, but strictly analyzing his actions as a military commander, Lee should not be considered overrated.

 

[U.S. Grant]

So crossing the river is the basis for not being a great general? You keep moving the goalposts.

How many times did the AotP try to cross that river and not make it? How long did it take?

You are incorrect. I have not moved the goalposts. I responded to various comments. You are responding to one of my refutes. Maybe you can clearly articulate why Lee should be revered? It is clear that he was not a great general.

 

[Gene Green]

Lee is probably the most highly rated.... loser..... in American History.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Making quick, some may argue implusive decisions do not make a great leader.

Not taking sides either way but many times in warfare, an average idea / violently executed / right now, is better than an almost perfect plan / carefully implemented / next week. Something about "...keeping up the skeer..."

The ability to improvise, trust your subordinates, and have confidence in your abilities are qualities of a great leader.
894

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[jackt62]

Here's one example. The AOTP under McClellan was located less than 10 miles from Richmond in the spring of 1862. Despite its flaws, Lee's Seven Days campaign successfully relieved the threat to that city for 2 years.

 

[U.S. Grant]

So crossing the river is the basis for not being a great general? You keep moving the goalposts.

How many times did the AotP try to cross that river and not make it? How long did it take?

You are incorrect. I have not moved the goalposts. I responded to various comments. You are responding to one of my refutes. Maybe you can clearly articulate why Lee should be revered? It is clear that

 

[USS ALASKA]

Why is he relevant...

Good, Bad, or Indifferent, he is relevant because he was the man in charge and made the history. The fact that you started this thread proves his relevance, especially to you.

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[Gene Green]

Here's one example. The AOTP under McClellan was located less than 10 miles from Richmond in the spring of 1862. Despite its flaws, Lee's Seven Days campaign successfully relieved the threat to that city for 2 years.

So ? Ole Jube was at the entrance to Washington and McCook successfully relieved the threat to that city. Was McCook great ? He was courtmarshalled I think.
There are many possibilities

 

[leftyhunter]

Too your point. The Brits were also distracted with fighting for control from France in the West Indies. When Lee faced Grant, Lee was in the Defense. Historically he had 3 to 1 oddss. In addition, he had time to emplace obstacles using his engineering back ground. However, he was unable to develop a cohesive strategy to defeat Grant. Grant beat Lee and the Rebels by devising a strategy that attacked the Rebels weakness. Lee was focused on a decisive battle. Again, a great skill for Regimental Commander.

There is no comprehensive strategy for Lee to defeat Grant. Sherman' s March through Georgia is encouraging desertion as the families from Georgia and latter the Carol beg their menfolk to desert.
Lee is dependent upon foodstuffs from Georgia and the Carolinas even cattle from Florida. Sherman is slowly but surely featuring farm crops and RR lines. An alternative source for foodstuffs is West European food imported the Port of Wilmington, North Carolina. When Ft.Fisher falls in January 1865 that good source is eliminated. Colonel Elisha Hunt Rhodes commander of the 2nd Rhode Island Infantry noted in his well known biography "All for the Union" that hungry Confederate soldiers were deserting to Union lines just to get food.
As General Omar Bradley said " Amateurs study strategy professionals study logistics.
One can be a strategic genius but still one can not just conjure up food.
Historically speaking a competent military force can overcome man-made obstacles in the long term.
Leftyhunter

 

[Gene Green]

So ? Ole Jube was at the entrance to Washington and McCook successfully relieved the threat to that city. Was McCook great ? He was courtmarshalled I think.
There are many possibilities

I hit the wrong button and thought I had finished this post with an edit. I lost it somehow.
Anyway I was saying...
Possible reasons why either action failed or not and I think it was Johnston who stopped the union advance, got wounded, and lee drove them out.