Land Navigation?

[atlantis]

Regarding land navigation what was the biggest problem. We see in the war some officers really struggle to get their command where they are supposed to be and properly positioned for best employment for their assigned task.
1 Not enough maps.
2 poor quality maps.
3 officer competence in using maps.
4 poor knowledge in general on reading terrain and using it to best effect.
5 something else.

 

[gary]

Lack of guides or maps

 

[rebelatsea]

My mate, who was in the Royal Artillery reckoned a Lieutenant with a map was as dangerous as the enemy!

 

[35th MA InfRegt]

Regarding land navigation what was the biggest problem. We see in the war some officers really struggle to get their command where they are supposed to be and properly positioned for best employment for their assigned task.
1 Not enough maps.
2 poor quality maps.
3 officer competence in using maps.
4 poor knowledge in general on reading terrain and using it to best effect.
5 something else.

Reasons 1 through 4 seem to cover the issues with land navigation pretty well. I am not sure how much-if any-formal training regular officers in the combat arms (artillery, cavalry, infantry)received in land navigation. I suspect expert map-reading was a skill set largely confined to the topographical engineers. I would also expect that engineering officers would likely be most adept at proper use of terrain. It would be interesting to see what other members think of this.

 

[Old Soldier]

That is why Britain started the Ordnance Survey. It was founded in 1791 with military origins to map the Highlands of Scotland after the 1745 Jacobite rising as there were few maps available. This was later extended the whole of Britain and Ireland during the Napoleonic wars and the threat of invasion as there was no detailed map of the whole of the country availbale for military planning. This led to the Principal Triangulation of Great Britain - an accurate mapping of 300 strategic points from a baseline in Houndslow (London) It was finally finished in 1853. This involved accurate measurement of the baseline to 1/1,000 of an inch and the the use of an accutate theodolite (Ramsden's).

So what has this got to do with civil war maps? It took over 50 years to do this in Britain - now imagine how long it would take in the USA! Maps in the USA were basically made when the need arose, usually for urban planning. So towns would usually have a reasonably accurate map available, although many were not strictly up to date as they expanded so quickly. The most accurate were coastal areas which had been surveyed for navigation purposes. Then came administration and the need to survey state and county borders like the Mason-Dixon line (the surveyors were from Bishop Auckland in Durham, England (Dixon) and Gloucestershire, England (Mason) Both were also astronomers which was often the only way to establish position in areas unknown.

Local maps were just that, local. They had on them what the locals thought importatant, roads, bridges, fords, farms and houses. these were named from local families or native Indian names. Often the only maps were from atlases and gave very few details:

Railroads were often missing because thye had just been constucted. Military maps were much better, but still often lacked topological data (landforms)

This map of Fredricksburg appears dated to 1863

https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3882r.cw0619600/?r=0.114,0.058,0.1,0.06,0

** main problem with seeking examples is ... the civil war. Try finding a map of Gettysburg BEFORE 1860!

 

[The Pennsylvania Line]

During the mid 19th century West Point didn't have a specific course titled "land navigation or map reading". Cadets were taught some of this through courses on cartography, terrain sketching, surveying and topography. At this time West Point was predominantly known for engineering.

I believe VMI and the Citadel taught some form of land navigation, but I will let more informed forum members correct me if I am wrong.

Civil War armies were composed of volunteers and they did not have a military education. Poor skills in map reading/land navigation can be blamed on reasons #1 through #4.

According to my grandfather there were many in Vietnam who couldn't navigate in the jungle, read a map or use a compass. During my time in service I made the same observations as my grandfather even though I didn't operate in the jungle and we had GPS.

 

[gary]

My mate, who was in the Royal Artillery reckoned a Lieutenant with a map was as dangerous as the enemy!

In the American Army it's a second lieutenant with a compass. Better have a good sergeant to keep the lieutenant and platoon alive.

 

[atlantis]

That is why Britain started the Ordnance Survey. It was founded in 1791 with military origins to map the Highlands of Scotland after the 1745 Jacobite rising as there were few maps available. This was later extended the whole of Britain and Ireland during the Napoleonic wars and the threat of invasion as there was no detailed map of the whole of the country availbale for military planning. This led to the Principal Triangulation of Great Britain - an accurate mapping of 300 strategic points from a baseline in Houndslow (London) It was finally finished in 1853. This involved accurate measurement of the baseline to 1/1,000 of an inch and the the use of an accutate theodolite (Ramsden's).

So what has this got to do with civil war maps? It took over 50 years to do this in Britain - now imagine how long it would take in the USA! Maps in the USA were basically made when the need arose, usually for urban planning. So towns would usually have a reasonably accurate map available, although many were not strictly up to date as they expanded so quickly. The most accurate were coastal areas which had been surveyed for navigation purposes. Then came administration and the need to survey state and county borders like the Mason-Dixon line (the surveyors were from Bishop Auckland in Durham, England (Dixon) and Gloucestershire, England (Mason) Both were also astronomers which was often the only way to establish position in areas unknown.

Local maps were just that, local. They had on them what the locals thought importatant, roads, bridges, fords, farms and houses. these were named from local families or native Indian names. Often the only maps were from atlases and gave very few details:
View attachment 594012
Railroads were often missing because thye had just been constucted. Military maps were much better, but still often lacked topological data (landforms)
View attachment 594014
This map of Fredricksburg appears dated to 1863

https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3882r.cw0619600/?r=0.114,0.058,0.1,0.06,0

** main problem with seeking examples is ... the civil war. Try finding a map of Gettysburg BEFORE 1860!

Sorry for stupid question but is Houndslow pronounced Hounds low.

 

[atlantis]

Were any major battles decided by poor land navigation/topographical skill?

 

[Intrafinesse]

Were any major battles decided by poor land navigation/topographical skill?

At South Mountain the Union forces took a circuitous route.
Had they taken a more direct route that would have had an impact.

I'm not sure if its due to the map or misreading it.
Prior to Appomattox, didn't some southern forces take the wrong route? Again it may have been misreading a map, or a bad map

 

[gary]

Sorry for stupid question but is Houndslow pronounced Hounds low.

Good question @Old Soldier @rebelatsea

Non-English English speakers want to know.

 

[Old Soldier]

Sorry for stupid question but is Houndslow pronounced Hounds low.

Yes. Hounslow is pronounced HOWNZ-loh. The 'd' is swallowed into the 'n'. I actually spelt it the old way as it is written in old records. Too much researching!

 

[Don Dixon]

In order to have map reading skills, you have to have maps to read. The United States Coast and Geodetic Survey (USC&GS) was known as the Survey of the Coast from 1807 to 1836, and then as the United States Coast Survey from 1836 until 1878, with its entire focus on mapping and charting the U.S. coast to support maritime commerce. In 1871, it was assigned the additional responsibility of surveying the interior of the United States. The additional function was assigned because of the utter lack of good maps during the Civil War and the U.S. Army's insistence on never being caught in a similar situation in the future. The nice topographic maps you played with in the military or scouting originate with that mission. A major factor in Stonewall Jackson's success in the Shenandoah Valley was his direction to his engineer officer, Jedediah Hotchkiss, to "map the valley." While Jackson had maps, his opponents floundered essentially without them. When taken away from his mapped areas - at the Seven Days and Chancellorsville, for example - he was much less successful.

 

[Sheltowee]

Lack of guides or maps

Just guessing here…… but I suspect local guides were utilized more frequently than maps.

 

[Radar14]

The only anecdote that comes to mind is from the 1862 Peninsula campaign, where evidently they often found that the maps they had were outdated or wrong. When McCall's division was looking for the Glendale crossroads on June 29 after dark, they overshot it and had to backtrack—I don't know how they determined that fact, but likely a combination of reckoning and the maps not aligning. And it being the middle of the night.

 

[rebelatsea]

In the American Army it's a second lieutenant with a compass. Better have a good sergeant to keep the lieutenant and platoon alive.

I reckon that's universal to all armies.,

 

[rebelatsea]

Sorry for stupid question but is Houndslow pronounced Hounds low.

Houndslaw is probably the the original spelling, Hounslow is the current spelling and pronunciation, My birth place was originally Eilinghulhas (an approximation, old maps and documents are difficult and contradictory? - Ealing, about 5 miles from Hounslow

 

[gjpratt]

Houndslaw is probably the the original spelling, Hounslow is the current spelling and pronunciation, My birth place was originally Eilinghulhas (an approximation, old maps and documents are difficult and contradictory? - Ealing, about 5 miles from Hounslow

Okay, now for another pronunciation lesson

 

[Old Soldier]

The only anecdote that comes to mind is from the 1862 Peninsula campaign, where evidently they often found that the maps they had were outdated or wrong. When McCall's division was looking for the Glendale crossroads on June 29 after dark, they overshot it and had to backtrack—I don't know how they determined that fact, but likely a combination of reckoning and the maps not aligning. And it being the middle of the night.

Some 'roads' were not as we would imagine roads today. It could have been two cart tracks. Now imagine that at night.

 

[The Pennsylvania Line]

Donald D. Blackburn was a prominent guerrilla leader in the mountains of Northern Luzon in WW II. I remember sitting in his home looking at a map made by one of his Filipinos. The details and accuracy was amazing. Mapping mountains and jungle isn't easy. With that said I'm sure Civil War Armies were short of skilled map makers.