Kepi authentic?

[Maximus71]

Never having owned or researched much on these I wonder if this one is good or a well aged clever fake?

 

[captaxe]

There's a thread elsewhere on this. Consensus is that this seller is churning out replicas as real

 

[Maximus71]

My thought was that some of the wear/age marks seem to be done in a purposeful and repetitive mannor.

 

[captaindrew]

That is a forage cap by the way, not a kepi.

 

[Maximus71]

Anyone have a link to the previous thread on this forage cap?

 

[Rhea Cole]

Out of curiosity I checked out McDowell pattern hats online & kepi's while I was at it. midwestcivilwarrelics.com was a good find. I didn't find a single image of Civil War cap with marks on the leather even vaguely similar to those in the image above. Like everyone else, the marks look too even & regular to be authentic to me. I do like the XV Corps badge, can't imagine anyone faking that.

 

[lelliott19]

I do like the XV Corps badge, can't imagine anyone faking that.

Apparently, in the past, a brass reproduction Fifteenth Corps badge was produced and widely available from S&S Firearms in Glendale, New York.

Products

Here's another one that's available now, although this one is enameled.

Metal Fifteenth Corps Badge | The Badge Maker, LLC

Metal Fifteenth Corps Badge Cast from Lead Free Pewter and hand engraved or painted to your liking to represent those Badges special ordered by soldiers through advertisments in various newpapers of the period. Choose Enamel Location: Background Only, Background and Center * Note Choosing...

www.civilwarcorpsbadges.com

 

[UCVRelics]

I'm still waiting for the CW hat expert to chime in paging @Package4

 

[lelliott19]

I'm still waiting for the CW hat expert to chime in paging @Package4

I believe he has already weighed in on this item

More eBay items that are questionable | Uniforms & Relics

Item numbers 143548335847 & 143546791498 I do not believe can be proven to be Civil War originals. They both appear to be reproductions, with the Union piece heavily and artificially distressed. I tried to report both items, but eBay has made it almost impossible to do so. Previous items sold...

civilwartalk.com

 

[UCVRelics]

I believe he has already weighed in on this item

More eBay items that are questionable | Uniforms & Relics

Item numbers 143548335847 & 143546791498 I do not believe can be proven to be Civil War originals. They both appear to be reproductions, with the Union piece heavily and artificially distressed. I tried to report both items, but eBay has made it almost impossible to do so. Previous items sold...

civilwartalk.com

When I copied and pasted those # in the ebay advance search the didn't work so I didn't know he had, oh well.

 

[Maximus71]

Thanks guys. As I feared it looks like another fool will soon be parting with his money.

 

[Package4]

Never having owned or researched much on these I wonder if this one is good or a well aged clever fake?

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I do not believe that this or other hats by the seller in question may be proven to be of Civil War vintage. The seller does have a top hat that is real with applied cord and brass. The cord wear is not commiserate with the age of the hat. I have lodged a complaint with eBay as to misrepresentation of items by this seller and would encourage others to do so.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Apparently, in the past, a brass reproduction Fifteenth Corps badge was produced and widely available from S&S Firearms in Glendale, New York.

Products

Here's another one that's available now, although this one is enameled.

Metal Fifteenth Corps Badge | The Badge Maker, LLC

Metal Fifteenth Corps Badge Cast from Lead Free Pewter and hand engraved or painted to your liking to represent those Badges special ordered by soldiers through advertisments in various newpapers of the period. Choose Enamel Location: Background Only, Background and Center * Note Choosing...

www.civilwarcorpsbadges.com

Thanks

I do not believe that this or other hats by the seller in question may be proven to be of Civil War vintage. The seller does have a top hat that is real with applied cord and brass. The cord wear is not commiserate with the age of the hat. I have lodged a complaint with eBay as to misrepresentation of items by this seller and would encourage others to do so.

That is why I found him interesting. A dealer I know who does appraisals told me that outside of items that were collected a long time ago, he rarely sees anything authentic. Literally millions of reproduction CW uniform & weapons have been made for over half a century. The early pieces really are old & in the case of those made by two local men were meticulously authentic. The complete Union uniform o0f theirs I have was made for a 15 year old boy. I don't know how many of our granddaughters wore it over the last 25 years. A person would have a very hard time distinguishing it from an original garment... it even smells of burnt cannon powder.

 

[Package4]

Thanks

That is why I found him interesting. A dealer I know who does appraisals told me that outside of items that were collected a long time ago, he rarely sees anything authentic. Literally millions of reproduction CW uniform & weapons have been made for over half a century. The early pieces really are old & in the case of those made by two local men were meticulously authentic. The complete Union uniform o0f theirs I have was made for a 15 year old boy. I don't know how many of our granddaughters wore it over the last 25 years. A person would have a very hard time distinguishing it from an original garment... it even smells of burnt cannon powder.

There is plenty of good material out there, you just need to know what you are looking at. I just picked up a Union forage cap and artillery shell jacket for a song, both dead real and neither has been in a collection. Was on a trip through the Carolinas this week and stopped in Battleground Antiques to visit with my buddy Will Gorges and he has so much great cloth it is incredible. Many well known collectors are starting to thin their collections due to health and age, but you will most likely not see those pieces on eBay.

The seller in question is using a torch to create wear and holes, it shows up as tan/brown on blue wool. His Confederate officer's artillery kepi doesn't even have any tarnish or patina on the gold braid, after 155 years the braid tarnishes regardless of how stored.

Rule of thumb, do not buy ACW items on eBay unless you know what you are doing.

 

[Rhea Cole]

There is plenty of good material out there, you just need to know what you are looking at. I just picked up a Union forage cap and artillery shell jacket for a song, both dead real and neither has been in a collection. Was on a trip through the Carolinas this week and stopped in Battleground Antiques to visit with my buddy Will Gorges and he has so much great cloth it is incredible. Many well known collectors are starting to thin their collections due to health and age, but you will most likely not see those pieces on eBay.

The seller in question is using a torch to create wear and holes, it shows up as tan/brown on blue wool. His Confederate officer's artillery kepi doesn't even have any tarnish or patina on the gold braid, after 155 years the braid tarnishes regardless of how stored.

Rule of thumb, do not buy ACW items on eBay unless you know what you are doing.

You have that right!

 

[UCVRelics]

There is plenty of good material out there, you just need to know what you are looking at. I just picked up a Union forage cap and artillery shell jacket for a song, both dead real and neither has been in a collection. Was on a trip through the Carolinas this week and stopped in Battleground Antiques to visit with my buddy Will Gorges and he has so much great cloth it is incredible. Many well known collectors are starting to thin their collections due to health and age, but you will most likely not see those pieces on eBay.

The seller in question is using a torch to create wear and holes, it shows up as tan/brown on blue wool. His Confederate officer's artillery kepi doesn't even have any tarnish or patina on the gold braid, after 155 years the braid tarnishes regardless of how stored.

Rule of thumb, do not buy ACW items on eBay unless you know what you are doing.

@Package4 is spot on as a LOT of the old timers that collected back in the 50 & 60 are dying off. In that last 5 years I have been able to purchase a lot of dug relic collections which is my hot button as I'm a relic hunter myself. Ive been at it for over 47 years and have seen it all. I tend to lean towards the buttons, plates, artillery shells and weapons and have educated myself. My first purchase was Alberts button book. I'm glad I don't have the cloth bug but if I did I know where to go for answers package4.

 

[Package4]

@Package4 is spot on as a LOT of the old timers that collected back in the 50 & 60 are dying off. In that last 5 years I have been able to purchase a lot of dug relic collections which is my hot button as I'm a relic hunter myself. Ive been at it for over 47 years and have seen it all. I tend to lean towards the buttons, plates, artillery shells and weapons and have educated myself. My first purchase was Alberts button book. I'm glad I don't have the cloth bug but if I did I know where to go for answers package4.

Thank you, one of my secrets is to purchase less than desirable pieces when affordable, to see how they were made. Using this technique, I don't have to harm better pieces. Once you understand the materials and techniques, it makes it easier to pick out the recreations. One such piece, worn by Mordecai Riley, Co E 50th IL below, is a private purchase forage cap with silk lining and bound brim. Insects had their way with it due to poor storage by the family, but allows one to see materials, construction and wear of a field worn piece.
I actually joined a re-enactment group to see how cloth and leather would wear, so not to be fooled by those pieces that made it on the market as originals. I fell in love with the hobby and as a result was able to get to know many of the better recreators of uniform materials. They have allowed me to see how they made their pieces for mass marketing.

 

[major bill]

I lean so much on this forum. It is kind of like having experts living next door.

 

[Old Breck]

As I stated on the other thread, the lining, sweatband, stitching and dimensions are identical to a forage cap I purchased from Greg Starbuck in the middle 2000s. Greg made a run of them for a Bully Buy on the Authentic Campaigner and this cap was actually based on a pre-war forage cap identified to a Virginian. I will dig out my cap and post pictures for comparison.

 

[A. Roy]

Thank you, one of my secrets is to purchase less than desirable pieces when affordable, to see how they were made. Using this technique, I don't have to harm better pieces. Once you understand the materials and techniques, it makes it easier to pick out the recreations. One such piece, worn by Mordecai Riley, Co E 50th IL below, is a private purchase forage cap with silk lining and bound brim. Insects had their way with it due to poor storage by the family, but allows one to see materials, construction and wear of a field worn piece.

Just this little tidbit is a great insight into smart collecting. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and skills!

Roy B.