Kentucky

[atlantis]

The constant refrain is that Va. with the industrial center was vital to the CSA. I submit Kentucky was the key. To hold Kentucky is to protect the CS heartland while providing a jump off point for operations into the Midwest to disrupt the supply of grain to the eastern US.
Agree/disagree.

 

[jackt62]

That's exactly how Lincoln thought. He was desperate to retain Kentucky in the Union, and once Leonidas Polk foolishly occupied Columbus thereby negating that state's "neutrality" in favor of Union loyalty, the south lost a potentially huge advantage. Not only did it forgo a strong defensive line along the Ohio River, it opened up waterways such as the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers, that offered the federal armies excellent routes by which to penetrate southwards.

 

[atlantis]

That's exactly how Lincoln thought. He was desperate to retain Kentucky in the Union, and once Leonidas Polk foolishly occupied Columbus thereby negating that state's "neutrality" in favor of Union loyalty, the south lost a potentially huge advantage. Not only did it forgo a strong defensive line along the Ohio River, it opened up waterways such as the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers, that offered the federal armies excellent routes by which to penetrate southwards.

I agree Polk was foolish but once in every effort should have been made to stay in. Later with Bragg I wonder if he withdrew too soon.

 

[jackt62]

I agree Polk was foolish but once in every effort should have been made to stay in. Later with Bragg I wonder if he withdrew too soon.

Well, in fact after the Columbus occupation, the CSA did attempt to create a defensive line across Kentucky centering on Bowling Green. The problem being that the command under A.S. Johnston, lacked sufficient manpower to hold that position, and after Grant achieved the surrender of Fts. Henry and Donelson, along the southern Kentucky/northern Tennessee border, the Bowling Green line became untenable. As far as Bragg is concerned, he seemed to have lost heart and interest in his Kentucky offensive after concluding that Kentuckians were not lining up en masse to join the CSA, despite the AOT achieving a series of at least technical wins such as at Perryville.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Everything you need to know about Kentucky's economy is to look at a rail road map. The Louisville & Nashville was the only RR connecting Kentucky with the deep south. The vast bulk of trade went to the Midwest & New England. Most of the slaves in Kentucky lived in the Bluegrass. Absent the fugitive slave act, slave-holders knew very well that keeping their people from running away would be well nigh impossible.

The swath of mountainous country in Eastern Kentucky was peopled by folks who were implacably hostile to the social pretense of slave-holders & loyal to the Union.

Try as they might, slave-holders could not create popular support for secession. Bragg hailed14,000 stands of arms into Kentucky to arm the groundswell of volunteers that would rush to join the AoT in liberating the state. Almost every single one of those muskets were hauled back out again.

Arguably, Kentucky was essential for the Confederacy to prosper. Equally true however, the Confederacy was not essential for Kentucky's prosperity.

 

[Ethan S.]

I can agree with that.

 

[atlantis]

Everything you need to know about Kentucky's economy is to look at a rail road map. The Louisville & Nashville was the only RR connecting Kentucky with the deep south. The vast bulk of trade went to the Midwest & New England. Most of the slaves in Kentucky lived in the Bluegrass. Absent the fugitive slave act, slave-holders knew very well that keeping their people from running away would be well nigh impossible.

The swath of mountainous country in Eastern Kentucky was peopled by folks who were implacably hostile to the social pretense of slave-holders & loyal to the Union.

Try as they might, slave-holders could not create popular support for secession. Bragg hailed14,000 stands of arms into Kentucky to arm the groundswell of volunteers that would rush to join the AoT in liberating the state. Almost every single one of those muskets were hauled back out again.

Arguably, Kentucky was essential for the Confederacy to prosper. Equally true however, the Confederacy was not essential for Kentucky's prosperity.

Wonder what model and caliber the arms.

 

[Pat Answer]

The constant refrain is that Va. with the industrial center was vital to the CSA. I submit Kentucky was the key. To hold Kentucky is to protect the CS heartland while providing a jump off point for operations into the Midwest to disrupt the supply of grain to the eastern US.
Agree/disagree.

I was just reading your "Fatal Mistake" thread. Rather than conscription, I was going to comment there my oft-stated belief that Polk going into Kentucky first in Sept 1861 was the grand strategic fatal error of the Confederacy for all the reasons @jackt62 lists in post #4 here: it practically ensured the western theater would go the way it did given the material, naval, and manpower advantages of the Union. But I can post this belief here more appropriately.
(Not that a Confederate Kentucky - a long shot historically as @Rhea Cole points out - necessarily changes things...)

 

[wausaubob]

Everything you need to know about Kentucky's economy is to look at a rail road map. The Louisville & Nashville was the only RR connecting Kentucky with the deep south. The vast bulk of trade went to the Midwest & New England. Most of the slaves in Kentucky lived in the Bluegrass. Absent the fugitive slave act, slave-holders knew very well that keeping their people from running away would be well nigh impossible.

The swath of mountainous country in Eastern Kentucky was peopled by folks who were implacably hostile to the social pretense of slave-holders & loyal to the Union.

Try as they might, slave-holders could not create popular support for secession. Bragg hailed14,000 stands of arms into Kentucky to arm the groundswell of volunteers that would rush to join the AoT in liberating the state. Almost every single one of those muskets were hauled back out again.

Arguably, Kentucky was essential for the Confederacy to prosper. Equally true however, the Confederacy was not essential for Kentucky's prosperity.

 

[wausaubob]

Bernstein wrote a very good synopsis about Kentucky's dilemma.

Kentucky in the Civil War 1861-1862 - Essential Civil War Curriculum

The problems were that Kentucky grew virtually no cotton. Therefore they distrusted a government formed and controlled by cotton growers. They also distrusted that the Richmond government was going to be able to hold Kentucky. This must have especially concerning after Kentuckians read about the progress of US arms in w. Virginia, under Rosecrans and McClellan.
The powerful people in Kentucky supported the continuation of slavery. But they had a competing interest in their connections to the US economy at Cincinnati/Covington and at New Albany/Louisville.
Plus they knew US troops were massing just across the river.
In each of the border states it tended to be a numbers game and a logistics game. The side with the most regiments, whose soldiers were the least dependent on taking local produce, had a very big advantage.
Kentucky was one of the richest and most diverse agricultural states in what had been the 15 state coerced labor section of the US. About 10% of the Confederacy's potential manpower and livestock supply left when Kentucky rejected secession.

 

[wausaubob]

When Kentucky declined to secede, the US had huge advantages there. The US railroad system touched Kentucky in four places. The US controlled the ferries and steamboats on the Ohio River and controlled the places where more steamboats could be built.

 

[GwilymT]

The constant refrain is that Va. with the industrial center was vital to the CSA. I submit Kentucky was the key. To hold Kentucky is to protect the CS heartland while providing a jump off point for operations into the Midwest to disrupt the supply of grain to the eastern US.
Agree/disagree.

More men from Kentucky fought for the Union than for the Confederacy. To hold that Kentucky was the key is a tall bill.

 

[leftyhunter]

More men from Kentucky fought for the Union than for the Confederacy. To hold that Kentucky was the key is a tall bill.

Per Steven Freeling 50 k Union enlisted vs 25k Confedrate enlisted then we have Confedrate guerrllas vs Union Homeguards.
Leftyhunter

 

[wausaubob]

Kentucky illustrates the basic asymmetry of the two belligerents. For Illinois, Indiana and Ohio, Kentucky was a helpful addition to existing resources. But to Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee, Kentucky was an essential shield and it contained resources they were going to need if the war continued past 12 months.

 

[wausaubob]

Kentucky supported the slavery section of the country politically, as it voted for McClellan in 1864. But it did not support the Confederacy in military matters, and that was a critical difference.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Wonder what model and caliber the arms.

I don't know, however, in December at Stones River, 60% of the AoT infantry was armed with smoothbore muskets. Surely they intended to arm the Kentucky militia with cast offs, i.e., cast off smoothbores. Some of the men at Stones River carried the hammer for their musket in their pocket. One regiment received a wagon load of what amounted to scrap. The men on the rear ranks carried sticks in order to appear armed during an attack on the Round Forrest. You can guess how that turned out. I have a .69 cal round ball found on the battlefield that I use to show visitors what infantry rounds looked like.

 

[JD Mayo]

Anna Gaines Hanger Her husband was married twice.
Oakwood Plantation was their home purchased in 1859 from Dr Robert Watkins on east Ninth street, east from Saint Johns' College of Arkansas (converted to a hospital during Civil war), that General Sterling Price (former Missouri governor) choose during Civil War as his headquarters before General Frederick Steele occupied Little Rock September 1863. More history here.

Anna Maria Gaines Hanger (1827-1898) - Find a...

2nd w/o Peter Hanger. Click on images for credits Birth: likely Boone county, Kentucky. Oakwood Plantation was their home purchased in 1859 from Dr Robert Watkins on east Nineth street, east from Saint Johns' College of Arkansas (converted to a hospital during Civil war), that General...

www.findagrave.com

 

[JD Mayo]

Everything you need to know about Kentucky's economy is to look at a rail road map. The Louisville & Nashville was the only RR connecting Kentucky with the deep south. The vast bulk of trade went to the Midwest & New England. Most of the slaves in Kentucky lived in the Bluegrass. Absent the fugitive slave act, slave-holders knew very well that keeping their people from running away would be well nigh impossible.

The swath of mountainous country in Eastern Kentucky was peopled by folks who were implacably hostile to the social pretense of slave-holders & loyal to the Union.

Try as they might, slave-holders could not create popular support for secession. Bragg hailed14,000 stands of arms into Kentucky to arm the groundswell of volunteers that would rush to join the AoT in liberating the state. Almost every single one of those muskets were hauled back out again.

Arguably, Kentucky was essential for the Confederacy to prosper. Equally true however, the Confederacy was not essential for Kentucky's prosperity.

My ancestors where more loyal to the Confederacy who lived in Kentucky. They had their property used for their army's threw out the war.

 

[atlantis]

I don't know, however, in December at Stones River, 60% of the AoT infantry was armed with smoothbore muskets. Surely they intended to arm the Kentucky militia with cast offs, i.e., cast off smoothbores. Some of the men at Stones River carried the hammer for their musket in their pocket. One regiment received a wagon load of what amounted to scrap. The men on the rear ranks carried sticks in order to appear armed during an attack on the Round Forrest. You can guess how that turned out. I have a .69 cal round ball found on the battlefield that I use to show visitors what infantry rounds looked like.

Very interesting that in Dec of 62 60% were armed with smoothbores. I am impressed by how well AoT performed with what they had.

 

[atlantis]

View attachment 366366

Anna Gaines Hanger Her husband was married twice.
Oakwood Plantation was their home purchased in 1859 from Dr Robert Watkins on east Ninth street, east from Saint Johns' College of Arkansas (converted to a hospital during Civil war), that General Sterling Price (former Missouri governor) choose during Civil War as his headquarters before General Frederick Steele occupied Little Rock September 1863. More history here.

Anna Maria Gaines Hanger (1827-1898) - Find a...

2nd w/o Peter Hanger. Click on images for credits Birth: likely Boone county, Kentucky. Oakwood Plantation was their home purchased in 1859 from Dr Robert Watkins on east Nineth street, east from Saint Johns' College of Arkansas (converted to a hospital during Civil war), that General...

www.findagrave.com

Pretty lady