Johnston at Stones River

[cleb]

It Seems General Joseph Johnston Went to the western theater and received command in November of 1862. What if he had been more Aggressive and strategic and tried to pull a Shiloh in Reverse by combining the forces in Mississippi and Louisiana that was under van dorn and eventually Pemberton and joining them to the Army of Tennessee before Stones River in late december, To Maybe 33k in Reinforcements, Maybe also Throwing in Maurys Undersized Division at Mobile and leaving some two regiments to hold mobile. Let's say Johnston asks the Governors of Georgia and Alabama for one brigade each or maybe a loan of militia and gets them, so 4k in militia plus some 4k with Maury so maybe by the time these Reinforcements of maybe 40k are all concentrated bragg who is sidelined as Johnston takes Command or just asserts Department Command in the field has a force of 75k but this is also excluding Breckenridges uninvolvement in Stones River in our timeline, so maybe 83k Total by the time of Late december 1862, it's also reasonable to believe Johnston leaves a brigade of cavalry and a scratch division so maybe 8k to watch Grant while he begins his holly springs march into the interior of Mississippi, Conceivably this could be Done and I don't see how Grant would realize the threat to Rosecrans and would simply be focused on Mississippi, in our timeline Grant took almost 2 months if not more to Join with Rosecrans at chattanooga, so it seems plausible that Grant could be given the slip and Grant sends Sherman to Vicksburg with a Corps, My logic is If Johnston was more like a Fabian General who hated fixed points and always liked manever, why would he not read up on the Entire Year's campaigns and the Actions of his predecessor, Surely he must have seen the Destruction of a Corps at Donelson, He also surely would have seen the disaster of Island number 10 and the Destruction of a division, You would have thought Johnston after Learning of the old Johnston and his bungling of a third of his army of 20k and another 15k trying to redeem the situation and smash grant just to fail, That Joseph Johnston would be critical of leaving an army or really any segment of an army near a major river navigatible by the Union, So basically in this idea, Johnston is kinda Bentonville level in Generalship and really Shines, Johnston Does not harbor a silent grudge against Davis and does not Resent losing command of the Army of northern virginia, Basically he sees the Western theater as equally important if not more so than virginia, Johnston Recognizes the confederacy can't really control the Mississippi River and check Rosecrans and Grant at the Same time with inferior forces and that at some point trying to hold the Mississippi would result in the destruction of another Army similar to Donelson and Number 10, Johnston instead of dodging this issue as Department commander could have alleviated it, Johnston Instead of Waiting for eventual Destruction of an Army and concentration of Northern Forces decides to Swap Queens, Abandoning the Mississippi River and vicksburg and some of Mississippi but Gaining The Destruction of Rosecrans Army, Gobbling up union Garrisons on the supply line from murfreesboro upwards to Louisville and gaining most of the Kentucky interior, Johnston goes all in by Facing Davis and sending a letter requesting abandonment of the Mississippi valley and total concentration and the detailed plan and tendering a conditional resignation letter upon receipt of the denied plan. Johnston doesn't expect Davis to actually listen and expects to go to early retirement in the carolinas after resigning the command of the Western Department and sit out the war and let bragg and pemberton do their thing. Davis Receives the Letter sometime in Late November and Reads it, Even though Davis in our time line Hates Johnston that was only manifested overtime in 1863 and in 1862 of december he ended up visiting Johnston and they went to jackson and did a speech together, Johnston really only had one strike with Davis over the rank thing, and it's also worth noting that Davis and seddon prodded Johnston to take command of the Army of Tennessee. Davis considers it and ponders instead of outright ridiculing and rejecting it, then refers the matter to the best general in the confederacy Robert Lee, Robert e Lee is focused on the new Threat of Burnside and is preparing for Fredericksburg, But by being focused on Virginia he actually helps Johnstons case, because he actually does not demurr or try to change the topic to getting his own Army Reinforced by the Mississippi army, He encourages johnstons proposal albeit not strongly but really casually like it is a matter on the side for him like he did with hood replacing johnston, He assumes if Johnston has a Stronger Force it will be closer to Virginia in Tennesse then in Mississippi and wants to eventually Draw significant Reinforcements from Johnstons Army in Tennesse, He really only endorses the idea because he thinks it will give him a fourth corps so he can be equal to the enemy force in the spring for his next campaign, Davis takes the Approval of Lee as a Ratification of the idea, And unexpectedly responds to Johnston with approval and support and maybe strengthens his departmental authority allowing him to promote or fire certain corps and division commanders and allows him more power to reorganize his army, Johnston is surprised but Immediately adopts the Plan In early December 1862 and strips the Mississippi river forces at vicksburg and port hudson and even jackson and leaves a small force to watch grant while also withdrawing most of maury at Mobile to Tennesse, Johnston Requisitions supplies from depots in Georgia and Alabama in Large Numbers and in Mid to Late December The Army of Tennesse is Fed almost as well as Rosecrans Army for one week and establishes supplies half as much as what Rosecrans moved into Georgia in our timeline did. Rosecrans lacks intelligence from his cavalry and is blind to the Confederate Buildup and if he has a doubt he dismisses it as a hoax. Johnston Completes his Reorganization by Leaving the 84k army in 4 Corps, Cleburne is promoted to one Corps and Hardee is the second and Polk is the third and Breckinridge is promoted to fourth Corps, and Forrest is promoted to all the cavalry, Rosecrans Advances with his 44k Army of the Cumberland on Murfreesboro in late December and Rosecrans Engages at Stones River but Johnston Fixes Rosecrans in place with Hardees Corps of 20k and sends the other 63k and Forrest to a Jump off position on the Left and Rosecrans Fights Hardee after arriving on the first day and then the next day Johnston Jackknifes Rosecrans Army into Stones River with 63k against probably 15k on Rosecrans Right, The Right Is Routed into the Center and 60k troops and forrest and hardees 20k Throw Rosecrans Army into the River, Rosecrans Loses 22k or half his army in casualties and another 6k in stragglers and captured, of the last 15k or so 5k Go in the Waters of Stones River trying to escape and 3k end up drowning and 2k manage to cross to be greeted by a brigade of confederate cavalry and captured. Rosecrans and his staff pull the white flag and Promptly Surrender the Remnant and whatever force is in the vicinity to Johnston on January 1st 1863, Johnston Actually gets a happy new year. Johnston loses 16k in casualties and has to detach a division to transport the prisoners south and clean the field of supplies, so basically Johnston is down to some 60k but Knows not following up will allow the union to save the reserves of the department of the cumberland and build a army in northern Kentucky, The Army of Tennessee Force marches and gobbles up detachments some 5k on the way to Nashville and Launches a Concentrated Assault on Nashville which is at most only held by 15k under a Rosecrans mediocre Post Commander, The Army of Tennesse Breaks the Line and Enters Nashville and the Nashville Commander Surrenders and The Nashville Depot is captured intact with its Garrison, Johnston is now at 53k but sends a Corps of 20k to capture posts and garrisons further up the cumberland such as Clarksville and donelson, and another 7k is captured, Johnston detaches another division of 8k to transport the prisoners and secure the supplies at the Depot, Johnston assembles a well fed and supplied mobile Army of 45k and after practically destroying the department of the cumberland and some 72k in enemy forces, Johnston Crosses the Cumberland and in mid to late January of 1863 has Broken up the railroad and captured bowling green, Paducah, and Columbus, and captured some 10k in garrison troops and some supplies, Johnston Moves the Army further north all the way to Louisville which the Union has been concentrating reserves and reinforcements and some hastily assembled militia from the Midwest, there is a Corps of 17k or so at louisville under a mediocre Midwest post commander, Johnston Strikes Louisville and with 40k captures Louisville and pushes that Force into the River and the Union post commander surrenders, in addition to the department of the cumberland being mostly destroyed and 72k lost another 30k was lost in kentucky, so the union loses 100k, Johnston destroys Louisville and returns to Frankfort and detaches a Corps to secure central and Eastern and southern Kentucky and establish communication with cumberland gap and Buckner in east tennesse and therefore with richmond, and starts the spring of 1863 with some 30k in Frankfort and detachments connecting through cumberland gap, so another 30k in detachments spread through southern Kentucky through tennesse to chattanooga, which eventually arrive back so Johnston is now at 50k in Frankfort and grant comes up to Southern Indiana and concentrates a Force of some 80k to prepare a campaign.

 

[steve59p]

Please break up the text into decent sized paragraphs. As a solid wall of text its very difficult to read and comprehend.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

It Seems General Joseph Johnston Went to the western theater and received command in November of 1862. What if he had been more Aggressive and strategic and tried to pull a Shiloh in Reverse by combining the forces in Mississippi and Louisiana that was under van dorn and eventually Pemberton and joining them to the Army of Tennessee before Stones River in late december

That's a lot of text to ask "What if Joe Johnston wasn't Joe Johnston?"

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

That's a lot of text to ask "What if Joe Johnston wasn't Joe Johnston?"

Did Johnston ever launched an attack during the war? I'm not speaking of a localized counterattack by a lone division, but an actual full scale attack?

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Did Johnston ever launched an attack during the war? I'm not speaking of a localized counterattack by a lone division, but an actual full scale attack?

Seven Pines & Fair Oaks
Bentonville

 

[Luke Freet]

Did Johnston ever launched an attack during the war? I'm not speaking of a localized counterattack by a lone division, but an actual full scale attack?

Johnston only ever attempted two serious offensive actions during the war: Seven Pines and Bentonville.
Seven Pines was done under pressure from Davis in Richmond to do something to stem McClellan's advance on Richmond. The battle was an overly complex and bungled affair, with orders being misunderstood and units taking the wrong roads.
Bentonville was a much smaller affair in comparison, and a lot more pointless in many ways. Johnston did it almost of his own initiative, though it was Hampton who appears to have conceived of the battle (finding the terrain, suggesting the attack, and arranging the deployments). However, that too was a bungled affair, with needless delays and a poor showing by his left wing commander Bragg.
There's also technically the Cassville Affair, but that was a half-hearted affair based on faulty intelligence of Sherman's positions.
There's other smaller actions at Resaca and Dallas that show that even in limited scale offensives, Johnston struggles with coordinating attacks between various divisions.
Johnston's not the kind of general one should put faith in to pull off some grand offensive operation.

 

[rbasin]

I don't see him doing any better than Bragg, maybe worse.