John Brown's Raid...........What if.......

[wausaubob]

I don't think that's a fair statement to make.

Ok, we disagree. I can live with it.

 

[Jimklag]

Ok, we disagree. I can live with it.

Oh, good.

 

[2/241]

Oh, good.

Oh, why

 

[jgoodguy]

how did Spartacus do it? they would have learned by doing

The Roman system of slavery included men with military experience and Spartacus had gladiator training, nor did they have to face men with firearms. Even with muskets, a manual of arms must be taught. Takes time and coordination of effort.

 

[2/241]

The Roman system of slavery included men with military experience and Spartacus had gladiator training, nor did they have to face men with firearms. Even with muskets, a manual of arms must be taught. Takes time and coordination of effort.

sorry Sir, I do know that

they had skilled fighters - nothing else

the Souther slaves would have had
skilled organizers
thousands of men skilled in obeying orders (most necessary forany army at the time)

I think Southercus would have had more chances than Spartacus

 

[wausaubob]

The war against the rebelling slaves would have resembled the war against the plains Indians. The United States would have participated in that war, willingly or begrudgingly.

 

[jgoodguy]

I don't think that's a fair statement to make.

Correct, but the nature of this what if suggests a hidden agenda IMHO the political question of would the Yankees go kill insurrectionist blacks to save their Southern cousins. Of course, the answer is yes. Or simply our reaction to the question.

 

[jgoodguy]

sorry Sir, I do know that

they

Good, looking for more info.

 

[wausaubob]

And how did the Spartacus rebellion end? The slaves were trapped in southern Italy and could not get to Greece.
Eventually they lost, and the surviving men were crucified upside down on the Appian Way. And the rest of the world knew about it as eventually the Parthians captured Crassus and poured liquid gold down his throat, or they said they did, anyway.
And the European provinces kept rebelling until Arminius led a successful anti-Roman coalition of Germans, Norsemen and Cheruscans.

 

[2/241]

AD

Good, looking for more info.

just clumpsey fingers

 

[matthew mckeon]

Federal troops did intervene when slaves rebelled. The German coast rebellion was suppressed by US Army troops as well as local militia. Brown was captured by federal troops, the Seminole War, which was in part to prevent incursions and rescue attempts by fugitive slaves into Georgia, was conducted by federal troops.

 

[jgoodguy]

sorry Sir, I do know that

they had skilled fighters - nosing ele

the Souther slaves would have had
skilled organizers
thousands of men skilled in obeying orders (most necessary forany army at the time)

I think Southercus would have had more chances than Spartacus

Good points all.

I'd suggest however that leadership is lacking and a mob is not likely to win a standup fight with organized forces. Another thing is that a lot of Spartacus men included POWs and other first generation slaves, not nth generation used to brutal suppression.

 

[jgoodguy]

Federal troops did intervene when slaves rebelled. The German coast rebellion was suppressed by US Army troops as well as local militia. Brown was captured by federal troops, the Seminole War, which was in part to prevent incursions and rescue attempts by fugitive slaves into Georgia, was conducted by federal troops.

Good info from the real timeline.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Sustained armed revolt by American slaves was impossible. I've never seen any plausible scenario.
Consider: The slaves were outnumbered by hostile whites.
They were divided into small packets scattered throughout the countryside, under daily supervision.
They were no means to communicate
They had no way to gather supplies
They had no way to train
They had no safe sanctuaries
They had no foreign allies
They had no way to acquire a large amount of guns or ammunition.

Enslaved people who found slavery intolerable could chose to escape, rather than a kamikaze attempt.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

Federal troops did intervene when slaves rebelled. The German coast rebellion was suppressed by US Army troops as well as local militia. Brown was captured by federal troops, the Seminole War, which was in part to prevent incursions and rescue attempts by fugitive slaves into Georgia, was conducted by federal troops.

Was not the Seminole War an unauthorized, illegal incursion by General Andrew Jackson into Spanish Florida?

 

[matthew mckeon]

What made Brown a little more scary: he did have allies, he did have safe sanctuaries, he did have means to gather weapons.

As someone else put it: Nat Turner was a nightmare, but the nightmare they were prepared for.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Was not the Seminole War an unauthorized, illegal incursion by General Andrew Jackson into Spanish Florida?

Yes, leading US troops, but I'm also thinking of later conflicts as well.

 

[wausaubob]

What if John Brown had attempted a real slave revolt in Port Royal or Natchez? My answer the slaves would have helped capture him before he ever got to a federal installation, as suggested by Abraham Lincoln.

 

[jgoodguy]

Sustained armed revolt by American slaves was impossible. I've never seen any plausible scenario.
Consider: The slaves were outnumbered by hostile whites.
They were divided into small packets scattered throughout the countryside, under daily supervision.
They were no means to communicate
They had no way to gather supplies
They had no way to train
They had no safe sanctuaries
They had no foreign allies
They had no way to acquire a large amount of guns or ammunition.

Enslaved people who found slavery intolerable could chose to escape, rather than a kamikaze attempt.

Good Summary IMHO

OTOH the OP says "If John Brown's Raid had been successful and a violent slave insurrection had taken place throughout the South" which short-circuits a lot of reality.

 

[2/241]

Sustained armed revolt by American slaves was impossible. I've never seen any plausible scenario.
Consider: The slaves were outnumbered by hostile whites.
They were divided into small packets scattered throughout the countryside, under daily supervision.
They were no means to communicate
They had no way to gather supplies
They had no way to train
They had no safe sanctuaries
They had no foreign allies
They had no way to acquire a large amount of guns or ammunition.

Enslaved people who found slavery intolerable could chose to escape, rather than a kamikaze attempt.

same thoughts about ... but Spatracus did it