Joe Hooker resigns

MikeyB

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
If Hooker didn't resign, does he get sacked a day or two later anyway? Any chance that while Lincoln and Stanton want to make a change, they actually don't? If Hooker hadn't resigned and Meade loses a couple of days, could that have a meaningful impact on the campaign? Or did Meade pretty much follow Hooker's playbooks for the first couple of days anyway?
 
Lincoln knew that if Lee's army would be able to obtain one more victory, especially on Northern soil, that the tide could turn against the Union.

Word reaches Lincoln that Lee has crossed the Potomac and is in Pennsylvania. Lincoln lost all confidence in Hooker. Hooker himself was humiliated and thus offers his resignation, which Lincoln gladly accepts.

If Lincoln was to retain Hooker, I think this is beneficial to the Confederates. A man who is humiliated and lacks confidence in himself can not lead properly. He will question himself and may retreat or adjust his lines prematurely which could be very damaging. Lincoln did not have faith in him, Hooker himself had lost his confidence and I'm sure the Union solders would be weary going into battle with Hooker in command. Meade gave them a breath of fresh air and new hope, along with added confidence. I'm not saying Gettysburg is a victory for the Confederates, but it could have meant that Lee was able to continue his invasion, or at least maintain his army in Pennsylvania, for a longer period of time.
 
Lincoln knew that if Lee's army would be able to obtain one more victory, especially on Northern soil, that the tide could turn against the Union.

Word reaches Lincoln that Lee has crossed the Potomac and is in Pennsylvania. Lincoln lost all confidence in Hooker. Hooker himself was humiliated and thus offers his resignation, which Lincoln gladly accepts.

If Lincoln was to retain Hooker, I think this is beneficial to the Confederates. A man who is humiliated and lacks confidence in himself can not lead properly. He will question himself and may retreat or adjust his lines prematurely which could be very damaging. Lincoln did not have faith in him, Hooker himself had lost his confidence and I'm sure the Union solders would be weary going into battle with Hooker in command. Meade gave them a breath of fresh air and new hope, along with added confidence. I'm not saying Gettysburg is a victory for the Confederates, but it could have meant that Lee was able to continue his invasion, or at least maintain his army in Pennsylvania, for a longer period of time.
While I agree with @major bill that we cannot know what would have happened, these are fair points.
Hooker no doubt saw the writing on the wall as soon as Lincoln began referring him back to Halleck rather than deal with him directly. The command correspondence just gets… awkward; ‘what to do about the Harper’s Ferry garrison’ was probably a convenient face-save for everyone involved. I (think I) read somewhere that Hooker was surprised his resignation was accepted. I could be wrong but I don’t see how that was possible…
 
Hooker's removal as AotP army commander may not have been exactly engineered by Lincoln, but the administration played its hand expertly in effecting that removal. After Lee begins his northward movement, Lincoln first quashes Hooker's plan for an offensive towards Richmond and demands that the AotP pursue and target the ANV while screening Washington. Hooker asks Halleck for permission to withdraw the untenable Harpers Ferry garrison and reinforce the AotP, but that request is turned down (also with Lincoln's connivance.) That refusal prompted Hooker's threat to resign his command, a threat that backfired on Hooker, as it gave the administration a pretext for relieving him, without actually doing so, by accepting his resignation. That being said, if Hooker had not fallen into that trap, I doubt if Lincoln would have traded horses that late in the game by relieving Hooker unilaterally. And if Hooker had remained in command of the AotP, the most probable outcome at Gettysburg would have been the same as it was under Meade.
 
Hooker's removal as AotP army commander may not have been exactly engineered by Lincoln, but the administration played its hand expertly in effecting that removal. After Lee begins his northward movement, Lincoln first quashes Hooker's plan for an offensive towards Richmond and demands that the AotP pursue and target the ANV while screening Washington. Hooker asks Halleck for permission to withdraw the untenable Harpers Ferry garrison and reinforce the AotP, but that request is turned down (also with Lincoln's connivance.) That refusal prompted Hooker's threat to resign his command, a threat that backfired on Hooker, as it gave the administration a pretext for relieving him, without actually doing so, by accepting his resignation. That being said, if Hooker had not fallen into that trap, I doubt if Lincoln would have traded horses that late in the game by relieving Hooker unilaterally. And if Hooker had remained in command of the AotP, the most probable outcome at Gettysburg would have been the same as it was under Meade.

Thanks. That's what I was most curious in. If Hooker hadn't fallen into the "trap" was Lincoln about to sack him anyway or does he let things ride on the eve of a major campaign on Northern soil.

Impossible to know how Hooker does in place of Meade so i'll leave that there. But, was Hooker showing aggressive pursuit or did Meade turn up the heat when he took over? Who knows if there is a battle of Gettysburg, but perhaps Lee has an extra day or two to play with depending on how aggressively Hooker was marching before he was relieved. That opens up a whole realm of possibilities around Confederate concentration, Stuart, etc.
 
I tend to give Hooker a fair amount of credit for getting the army organized and in motion to pursue Lee even though the pursuit wasn't especially aggressive. He deserves credit for the army being in position to concentrate at Gettysburg to be able to fight a major battle.

Hooker's carping and whining had grown extremely tedious for Lincoln, Stanton and Halleck. My guess is that he had he not resigned, he would have been relieved. I do think that a Battle of Gettysburg with Hooker in command would have looked a lot like the Battle of Chancellorsville: passive and a failure to commit his entire force, defeatist in tone. For all of his huffing and blowing, when the rubber hit the road, Fighting Joe failed miserably as an army commander on the battlefield, concussion notwithstanding.
 
I stand corrected then about Hooker’s expectations - though it still puzzles me knowing the history of high command in the AotP up to that point.

I do know that the corps are where they are when Meade takes over because Hooker has been pushing them - and inadvertently blocking Stuart - well before June 28.
Agree. It's not as though the Army of the Potomac had been cautiously feeling its way around and suddenly was subjected to turbo-thrust by Meade. As for how Hooker would have fared at Gettysburg, I put little stock in that sort of speculation. It is worth noting for anyone who would predict Chancellorsville Redux that Hooker actually performed well in corps command before resigning over the Howard matter in July 1864. Lee began calling in his forces on June 28, apparently based on Harrison's concerning information about the A of the P's aggressive movement. That was all Hooker's doing.
 
Of course impossible to know how Gettysburg (if there was a Gettysburg) would have turned out… and which Hooker would have showed up for it… :biggrin: although the odds are probably that Hooker the less than confident* army commander is full of second-guesses.

[*Edit: of Administration support]
 
Of course impossible to know how Gettysburg (if there was a Gettysburg) would have turned out… and which Hooker would have showed up for it… :biggrin: although the odds are probably that Hooker the less than confident army commander is full of second-guesses.
As a guy who repeatedly criticizes the "Stonewall at Cemetery Hill" frolic, I am hardly in a position to speculate about Hooker at Gettysburg. I can say that, unlike the NHL, I don't think he was cleared for a return to action from the concussion. .. 😎
 
The keen ability of Meade's corps commanders Hancock and Howard in surveying the terrain and establishing effective defensive positions at Cemetery Hill and the ridgeline, and errors and mishaps that beset Lee in his offensive moves, probably spelled success for the AotP, no matter whether Meade or Hooker were in command. That being said, and giving Meade his due in giving subordinates sufficient latitude to oversee operations (Sickles notwithstanding!), and Meade's dexterity in shifting forces to threatened fronts, would Hooker have conducted any less a successful defense?
 
One gets the feeling that Joe knew something was in the wind when Lincoln referred him to Halleck and then denied him the HF garrison.
 
The keen ability of Meade's corps commanders Hancock and Howard in surveying the terrain and establishing effective defensive positions at Cemetery Hill and the ridgeline, and errors and mishaps that beset Lee in his offensive moves, probably spelled success for the AotP, no matter whether Meade or Hooker were in command. That being said, and giving Meade his due in giving subordinates sufficient latitude to oversee operations (Sickles notwithstanding!), and Meade's dexterity in shifting forces to threatened fronts, would Hooker have conducted any less a successful defense?
Fighting Joe and Dirty Dan got along so well it's possible that Hooker might've paid more attention to Sickles' requests for aid than did Meade until it was too late.
 
Fighting Joe and Dirty Dan got along so well it's possible that Hooker might've paid more attention to Sickles' requests for aid than did Meade until it was too late.
That could be but Joe was very adamant in ordering Sickles' withdrawal from the high ground of Hazel Grove at Chancellorsville. Would Hooker have maintained a similar stance at Gettysburg in holding firm on Sickles' request to advance his designated position?
 
That could be but Joe was very adamant in ordering Sickles' withdrawal from the high ground of Hazel Grove at Chancellorsville. Would Hooker have maintained a similar stance at Gettysburg in holding firm on Sickles' request to advance his designated position?
Yes, but that was only after he had authorized the move in the first place and Jackson's attack had virtually isolated the position by the morning of May 3. Since they wound up evacuating hazel Grove as well that proved to be a mistake anyway.
 
Perhaps the best indication as to how Hooker would have acted at Gettysburg is his behavior out west? What can we learn from his time there, at Chattanooga and in Georgia? Aggressive or cautious?

Still irritable at least.
 
Hooker was almost amazingly competent and aggressive during the battles for Chattanooga. Grant tried unsuccessfully to sideline him when a bridge across the Tennessee was broken, leaving Hooker and only one of his divisions stranded on the opposite side. (He had three, two from the Eleventh Corps that continued on to reinforce Sherman, and Geary's Twelfth Corps Division, the only one he kept under his own control.) To it was added one from Thomas' army and another (Osterhaus's, who he praised highly in his official report) from Sherman's army which had also been cut off on that side of the river. It was with this mixed force of unknown quality that he went on to assault and capture Lookout Mountain and then move on to cross Lookout Creek - admittedly belatedly because another bridge there had been destroyed by the retreating Confederates - and assail Missionary Ridge at Rossville Gap. The next day he then led the pursuit all the way to Ringgold where he was finally stopped cold by Pat Cleburne's rearguard defense. This was actually only a temporary setback because Cleburne withdrew as soon as he learned the army's trains had escaped; however, the pursuit was called off by Grant who along with Sherman had joined Hooker at Ringgold. Grant had just received a telegram from Lincoln requiring him to send aid to Burnside at Knoxville, so he ordered Hooker to return to the vicinity of Chattanooga where he soon went into winter camps. Due to his personal dislike, Grant never wanted to give Hooker any credit for what he had accomplished at Chattanooga, downplaying the capture of Lookout in his memoirs as "pure moonshine."
 
Last edited:
Grant never wanted to give Hooker any credit for what he had accomplished at Chattanooga, downplaying the capture of Lookout in his memoirs as "pure moonshine."

My impression is Hooker's capture of Lookout Mountain was a job well done, but not especially remarkable. (I read Cozzens a decade ago.) "The Battle Above The Clouds" was not as dramatic as it might seem from the lofty heights and name. Hooker smartly approached from the south and pushed up the ridge, steadily driving the Confederates until they evacuated the mountain before they could be trapped against the bluffs at the north end.
 
Back
Top