Jesse James

Perhaps you'll know who I'm trying to remember.....?

But there was a "b" type semi celeb cowboy/gunfighter that when dead was found to have a picture of General J.O. Shelby on him, with "my general" written on the back. Though it's thought he was too young to have rode with Shelby........thinking he associated with Arizona and possibly tombstone.
 
Perhaps you'll know who I'm trying to remember.....?

But there was a "b" type semi celeb cowboy/gunfighter that when dead was found to have a picture of General J.O. Shelby on him, with "my general" written on the back. Though it's thought he was too young to have rode with Shelby........thinking he associated with Arizona and possibly tombstone.

Jack Burrows biography of John Ringo in the 1990s mentions a 1970s claim to have LOCATED in a secret, long-lost cache of Johnny Ringo's private papers, a photograph of General Shelby...

1717278435495.png


The author, a Mr. Monette, claimed:

1717278600011.png

1717278637779.png


1717278702012.png




Too bad people feel the need to desecrate original artifacts with spurious attributions.
 
Jack Burrows biography of John Ringo in the 1990s mentions a 1970s claim to have LOCATED in a secret, long-lost cache of Johnny Ringo's private papers, a photograph of General Shelby...

View attachment 509703

The author, a Mr. Monette, claimed:

View attachment 509704
View attachment 509705

View attachment 509706



Too bad people feel the need to desecrate original artifacts with spurious attributions.
Now that's a connection I did not expect!

Thanks as usual RR!

 
Jack Burrows biography of John Ringo in the 1990s mentions a 1970s claim to have LOCATED in a secret, long-lost cache of Johnny Ringo's private papers, a photograph of General Shelby...

View attachment 509703

The author, a Mr. Monette, claimed:

View attachment 509704
View attachment 509705

View attachment 509706



Too bad people feel the need to desecrate original artifacts with spurious attributions.
Yes Johnny Ringo, knew he was kinda famous, but not quite like Jesse james. Billy the Kid, Earps, Hickok.

Edit-added-I remember watching this video over winter, can visit gravesite.

 
Makes sense there were Missourians in the mix. A lot of Missourians started really decamping from Missouri to Texas especially when GO number 11 went in effect in Burnt District and even more " lit a shuck " after the war " ended". Given how the Davis Texas was they some of them anyway would leave Texas too. Carpetbagging was a popular past time after the war.
Missourians migrated south to Texas and west to California during the war years. A significant portion of Missouri's prewar population left Missouri to escape the depredations brought to the State by Union regiments that had been deployed to occupy and pacify the population. When Union troops showed up, they systematically took control of the press, the banks, the churches and they robbed farms and businesses at will. All these measures levied against a State that had not seceded.
 
Missourians migrated south to Texas and west to California during the war years. A significant portion of Missouri's prewar population left Missouri to escape the depredations brought to the State by Union regiments that had been deployed to occupy and pacify the population. When Union troops showed up, they systematically took control of the press, the banks, the churches and they robbed farms and businesses at will. All these measures levied against a State that had not seceded.
Yeah Mothers Family decamped from Missouri after General Order number 11 went into effect and settled in the Sherman Texas area and later moved west into the Hill Country near Fredericksburg. Missourians wore out the Texas Road through IT.
One Armed Alvin Cobb a guerilla from Montgomery County went to California fairly early on and later went to Oregon, as well as others went to California. The Provisional Government and Departmental Commanders did a job of work depopulating certain areas of Missouri.
 
Yeah Mothers Family decamped from Missouri after General Order number 11 went into effect and settled in the Sherman Texas area and later moved west into the Hill Country near Fredericksburg. Missourians wore out the Texas Road through IT.
One Armed Alvin Cobb a guerilla from Montgomery County went to California fairly early on and later went to Oregon, as well as others went to California. The Provisional Government and Departmental Commanders did a job of work depopulating certain areas of Missouri.
Exactly. West Central and Little Dixie Counties were abandoned by many descendants of the initial settlers. In many cases they were replaced by migrants from the northern States and/or 'the Dutch'. There was much less severe depopulation in Northwestern Missouri. I was born and raised and farmed in my community due to the fact my GGPa x 3 retained ownership of his farm and returned from northwest Arkansas after the war to reclaim it.
 
Exactly. West Central and Little Dixie Counties were abandoned by many descendants of the initial settlers. In many cases they were replaced by migrants from the northern States and/or 'the Dutch'. There was much less severe depopulation in Northwestern Missouri. I was born and raised and farmed in my community due to the fact my GGPa x 3 retained ownership of his farm and returned from northwest Arkansas after the war to reclaim it.
Parts of Little Dixie like Montgomery, Warren, Lincoln and Callaway had the Militia EMM, PEMM and MSM coming out of Gasconade County ( Herrman) which is still heavily German ( Dutch)in ethnic make up and still referred to as " South of River" to differentiate it from Little Dixie coming into those counties to "Punishing ze Slaveocrats Ja ja ve punishing zem gut."
 
Parts of Little Dixie like Montgomery, Warren, Lincoln and Callaway had the Militia EMM, PEMM and MSM coming out of Gasconade County ( Herrman) which is still heavily German ( Dutch)in ethnic make up and still referred to as " South of River" to differentiate it from Little Dixie coming into those counties to "Punishing ze Slaveocrats Ja ja ve punishing zem gut."
I read somewhere once, that in the German communities in Central Missouri they would chide rowdy children with "You better be quiet or Dave Poole will come get you"
 
I've heard that about Dave Poole to don't remember where I read it either.
I've found it interesting that in a war where Union militia and guerrillas were rather equal opportunity killers, both took no/few prisoners and mistreated including occasionally killing civilians..........Dave Poole is the only one that it's often mentioned particularly had a thing for killing Germans and blacks specifically.
 
I've found it interesting that in a war where Union militia and guerrillas were rather equal opportunity killers, both took no/few prisoners and mistreated including occasionally killing civilians..........Dave Poole is the only one that it's often mentioned particularly had a thing for killing Germans and blacks specifically.
John McCorckle wrote about Davey Poole raiding the German settlement in Concordia, Missouri. Poole apparently has a particular dislike for that community. Maybe it was just the concentration of German immigrants that set him off.
 
John McCorckle wrote about Davey Poole raiding the German settlement in Concordia, Missouri. Poole apparently has a particular dislike for that community. Maybe it was just the concentration of German immigrants that set him off.
Well you know the German Immigrant population wasn't very well regarded in Missouri at that time not even in St Louis, which was one of reasons Herr Sigel mustered his "Turner's" into Federal Service as well as recruiting enough additional "Dutch" to create a regiment. The idea was to make the German Immigrant vital to Der Union. Ja, ja. And make them more acceptable to the Native Born Americans.
 
"American Outlaws" (2001) certainly romanticized the James Gang, with Colin Farrell as Jesse. "Assassination of Jesse James" (2007) put Brad Pitt in the title role. Gangs and gangsters still often get romanticized in the 21st century.

I think the appeal is not about underdogs, but ratger that we live in a society. A lot of people resent that. They chafe at rules and fantasize about living outside them. Rarely for any noble reasons; usually just out of their own sense of entitlement.

One must be careful when looking at events 1865-1876. Some things that happened during Reconstruction, even involving veterans, had little or nothing to do with Reconstruction politics.
 
"American Outlaws" (2001) certainly romanticized the James Gang, with Colin Farrell as Jesse. "Assassination of Jesse James" (2007) put Brad Pitt in the title role. Gangs and gangsters still often get romanticized in the 21st century.

I think the appeal is not about underdogs, but ratger that we live in a society. A lot of people resent that. They chafe at rules and fantasize about living outside them. Rarely for any noble reasons; usually just out of their own sense of entitlement.

One must be careful when looking at events 1865-1876. Some things that happened during Reconstruction, even involving veterans, had little or nothing to do with Reconstruction politics.
Think alot of the James legend is because much of the story invokes sympathy.

From being whipped as a 16 yr old boy, and watching his stepfather tortured....to being shot while trying to surrender at wars end, then certainly the Pinkerton attack on his family killing his little brother and maiming his mother lead to sympathy, then his assassination being shot in the back in his own home by a paid assassin.

Certainly the last 2 didn't invoke sympathy for government/law enforcement. I've said before the legend isn't as much what he did....but what had been done to him.

Certainly the treatment of family during and postwar invokes sympathy, as torturing civilians and tossing bombs into homes in the middle of the night are rather frowned upon. As is assassination by backshooting and shooting someone surrendering......

One can certainly argue it doesn't justify/excuse what he did.......but the problem with saying that, is it doesn't change what was done to him and his family wasn't justified or excusable either. So why it remains a sympathetic story well fitted for film or legend.
 
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"American Outlaws" (2001) certainly romanticized the James Gang, with Colin Farrell as Jesse. "Assassination of Jesse James" (2007) put Brad Pitt in the title role. Gangs and gangsters still often get romanticized in the 21st century.

I think the appeal is not about underdogs, but ratger that we live in a society. A lot of people resent that. They chafe at rules and fantasize about living outside them. Rarely for any noble reasons; usually just out of their own sense of entitlement.

One must be careful when looking at events 1865-1876. Some things that happened during Reconstruction, even involving veterans, had little or nothing to do with Reconstruction politics.
Whether or not you think he is over awed by some for the wrong reasons is your opinion and your entitled to it . But the facts remains that Reconstruction had a lot to do with ourlawry Jesse slid into Understand I'm not condoning it but regardless of your opinion, it an effect.....on more men than Jesse or Frank or Cole no matter how you disagree with that statement, it did.
 

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