Ironclads: tools for the iron

[corn-fed-erate]

I wonder how they cut the iron at the boat yards as needed. Has anyone ever seen an origional Peter Evans Smith drill bit. What did the drill look like that turned these large metal cutting bits. Or, was the iron pre-drilled at the foundries before it left?

 

[ole]

I wonder how they cut the iron at the boat yards as needed. Has anyone ever seen an origional Peter Evans Smith drill bit. What did the drill look like that turned these large metal cutting bits. Or, was the iron pre-drilled at the foundries before it left?

One of things that escape us is that they weren't as primitive as we might think. They did things we can't imagine they could do.

I have an immigrant's trunk made by my gggfather for my ggfather in 1847. (He knew the gg father was heading across the pond.) All of it was made in his shop. The hinges, the carved wood, the paint (rosemaeling) the containers, the connectors and the lock. (And yes, it still works.) All was made by hand without benefit of mechanization. I mention this because people then were much less primitive than we might think.

What is amazing is that it is still functional at 168 years. (We use it to store excess blankets during the summer.) While I am fairly handy with tools, there's no way I could have built that trunk, but he could. Oh. And his name was Ole.

So, while I can't tell you how they cut iron, I can assure you that they did.

 

[ole]

 

[ole]

Here is a view of the family's farm overlooking the tail end of Sognefjord. Between Aurland and Flam. The gard is now a National Park, so it is still there. Park Rangers and all that.

 

[unicornforge]

This video might help

 

[ole]

Unicornforge knows what is was like at the time.

 

[DaveBrt]

IIRC, the first plates for the Virginia were cold punched at Tredegar. The CSN did not like the mini cracks that the method produced in the area around the holes, so the went to drilling them out-- no cracks, but much slower. Drilling could also be done on-site, so it was not necessary to carefully measure where the holes were needed before the plates were ordered. Obviously, drilling on-site would be slower than in a purpose built shop.

 

[georgew]

I wonder how they cut the iron at the boat yards as needed. Has anyone ever seen an origional Peter Evans Smith drill bit. What did the drill look like that turned these large metal cutting bits. Or, was the iron pre-drilled at the foundries before it left?

You may want to check with Rebel on this. I believe that the iron for the Mississippi was actually pre-cut to specs at Atlanta. I don't know if it was drilled there. There were a pair of drilling machines on site at Ft. Pickens (Arkansas building yard). They were packed up and shipped elsewhere to prevent capture at Memphis in early June, 1862. I don't know what they used for cutting off the rails, but there were a number of machine shops available including the hub shop of one of the railroads at Memphis. The Naval Station at Shreveport must have operated with much more primitive equipment, they ran most of the broadside rails diagonally to minimize cutting. Most connectors or fittings were done at local foundries or by blacksmith shops. Lt. Brown was notorious at Yazoo City for mobilizing all of the local blacksmithing tools and smiths. The Tredegar was pretty much equipped to form anything, but had a huge backlog of orders. The Station at Selma built up a very impressive industrial base to support the Naval Gun Factory. Another impressive achievement was Warner's yard at Columbus, Ga., an excellent book called "Naval Gray" is available about Columbus.

 

[Mild53]

Here is a view of the family's farm overlooking the tail end of Sognefjord. Between Aurland and Flam. The gard is now a National Park, so it is still there. Park Rangers and all that.

A fellow Scandanavian, its nice to have that trunk of your ancestors. Mine are from the Varberg area of Sweden. I have visited and I like Sweden very much.

 

[ole]

A fellow Scandanavian, its nice to have that trunk of your ancestors. Mine are from the Varberg area of Sweden. I have visited and I like Sweden very much.

Svenska!!! Alarm! Alarm!

Sectionalism is alive and well.

Seriously, we used to make fun of Swedes, but it was just fun. Hans Carlson was our best friend back in the days. He was the only Swede for miles around.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

One of things that escape us is that they weren't as primitive as we might think. They did things we can't imagine they could do.

Your right about that.

The American Society of Mechanical Engineers designated the USS Cairo's engine & boilers as a National Mechanical Engineering Landmark.

Photo at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gatorsr1/5463087469

 

[rebelatsea]

You may want to check with Rebel on this. I believe that the iron for the Mississippi was actually pre-cut to specs at Atlanta. I don't know if it was drilled there. There were a pair of drilling machines on site at Ft. Pickens (Arkansas building yard). They were packed up and shipped elsewhere to prevent capture at Memphis in early June, 1862. I don't know what they used for cutting off the rails, but there were a number of machine shops available including the hub shop of one of the railroads at Memphis. The Naval Station at Shreveport must have operated with much more primitive equipment, they ran most of the broadside rails diagonally to minimize cutting. Most connectors or fittings were done at local foundries or by blacksmith shops. Lt. Brown was notorious at Yazoo City for mobilizing all of the local blacksmithing tools and smiths. The Tredegar was pretty much equipped to form anything, but had a huge backlog of orders. The Station at Selma built up a very impressive industrial base to support the Naval Gun Factory. Another impressive achievement was Warner's yard at Columbus, Ga., an excellent book called "Naval Gray" is available about Columbus.

Mississippi's armour was precut and drilled to a detailed set of drawings. At the construction site all that had to be done was to position the plates and bolt them in place. Nelson Tift makes mention of this in his evidence to the subsequent inquiry. I'm not sure about the tools used for cutting plate in situ at this time, In the ironworks it would have been something like a giant guillotine and done while the iron was hot. There are several examples at preserved sites here in the UK. Alteration to shape once the plate was fixed would have been done with good old fashioned muscle powered hammer and cold chisel. HMS Warrior's gunports still show chisel marks where the iron was pared away to enlarge the ports when she was re -armed.

 

[ole]

Without doubt, the Southern ironmongers were every bit as good as their Northern counterparts with one exceptiom: they couldn't build the engines required to propel the boats and railroads.

And, dammit, I forgot to watch the last game of the World Series.

 

[rebelatsea]

Without doubt, the Southern ironmongers were every bit as good as their Northern counterparts with one exceptiom: they couldn't build the engines required to propel the boats and railroads.

And, dammit, I forgot to watch the last game of the World Series.

They had the ability but not the resources Ole

 

[bradford011]

They had the ability but not the resources Ole

Too true...

I often wonder what might have happened if the Confederate Government decided to get its own blockade runners much earlier than they did. They could have been used to bring in more heavy guns plus armor and engines - things normal blockade runners wouldn't bother with until forced too. It wouldn't have won the war but more ironclads might have gotten into action...

 

[DaveBrt]

Too true...

I often wonder what might have happened if the Confederate Government decided to get its own blockade runners much earlier than they did. They could have been used to bring in more heavy guns plus armor and engines - things normal blockade runners wouldn't bother with until forced too. It wouldn't have won the war but more ironclads might have gotten into action...

The first runners were needed to bring in arms and ammunition for the army. Once that need was more or less satisfied (Summer of '62?), Navy needs could be addressed. So what effect on the war would more Confederate ironclads have had, if the additional ones started showing up in late '62?

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Depends on where they were located. The classic example of a successful Confederate defensive effort was, of course, Charleston SC, where ironclads, obstructions, torpedoes, torpedo boats, and fortifications made an interlocking, mutually-supporting defensive complex that ended up defeating everything the Union could throw at it, until the city was approached from the rear from inland. I think that ironclads alone did not a successful defense make, but in combination with other defenses could be quite effective.

If we look at late 62 on, probably the most effective places for ironclads to have been operating (other than the successful effort at Charleston) was Wilmington NC and perhaps ? Savannah GA. The historical Wilmington-based ironclads were at best unfortunate and at worst poorly built; better warships might have been better able to challenge Union warships operating off Fort Fisher and Fort Caswell. Savannah had been bottled up early with the taking of Fort Pulaski, so some sort of counteroffensive to retake it would have been necessary; ironclads alone wouldn't have done it.

If Mobile had had more effective ironclads that just the Tennessee, it would have been a substantial challenge for Farragut. Mobile, though, was not as well-set-up for mutually-supporting defenses as Charleston-- things were much more strung out and spread widely.

 

[Carronade]

Union industrial capacity was such that, while fighting the war, they could build ironclad frigates for export to the Italian navy, so they should be able to keep up with any realistically imaginable Confederate program.

The other problem the Confederates had was that their ironclads were built in ports throughout the Confederacy, while the Union could move freely along the coasts (and rivers) and concentrate superior force at any given point. For example Tennessee was confined to Mobile Bay while Farragut brought to his attack four monitors, two built in New Jersey and two at St. Louis. If the Confederates could build a useful number of ships at some chosen port, and run through the blockade the guns, armor, engines etc. for them, they would likely still find a superior Federal force ready to meet them.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Yeah. More Confederate ironclads means more headaches for Union commanders, but doesn't win the war alone.

 

[Carronade]

Might as well throw in my usual plug; if the Confederates did have the capacity to bring in another thousand tons or so of iron and machinery, we still have to consider what the best use of that capacity would be. Railroad iron and locomotives might be a better investment than ironclads. Internal logistics were a critical problem throughout the war, and interior lines were a key military advantage the Confederates needed to exploit to the maximum.