Impacted Minie Ball?

huskerblitz

Major
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Location
Nebraska
Wondering if someone with more experience than me can verify this?

Weight and size is similar to a dropped minie ball. Thanks!

20240723_214428.jpg


20240723_214421.jpg
 
I think it is definitely a fired bullet with signs of impact. If it is Civil War, and I am not sure, it appears to be a carbine bullet. I say that because the base kinda looks solid. If it has a hollow base then it might be an Enfield, as speculated above. Then again it could be a post-war bullet. It does look old though.

Perhaps @Tom Hughes or @UCVRelics can chime in on the issue.
 
Yes.
While I doubt that lead gives off an odor, these bullets were lubed with a mixture of tallow and beeswax and that might give off an odor that varmints, especially hogs, could smell.
Interesting observation. If a bullet was fired, would tallow or beeswax be "burned off" (in some way eliminated) due to travel down a barrel filled with super heated gases, possible friction with the barrel, friction from the air it traveled through, friction with whatever it impacted with, and exposure to the elements? If so, what attracted animals to it to gnaw on it? Since we are talking animal modification and not human, with respect to nibbling, we are also talking animal sensory systems. Is there something about lead that animal sniffers might pick up that human sniffers do not?

If a bullet was dropped, how long would the tallow or beeswax remain to attract animals to gnaw on it? I haven't dealt with that many chewed bullets but it seems to me that all gnawed bullets I have noticed appear to have the same patina on the gnawed parts as the rest, indicating that the gnawing was done early-on and not decades after the bullet was exposed to the elements. Is this the case in general? If there is something in lead that would attract animal sniffers is it masked by oxidation? If not, wouldn't most dropped bullets have indications of being gnawed on (having been left in the environment for over 150 years for animals to find), or at least a lot more that we see?

We should also take into consideration what animals are chewing on bullets and whether or not these animals would be attracted to tallow, beeswax, or some other substance and what types of bullets are being chewed, caliber, make, model? There may be some unknown information about small arms ammunition or wildlife biology involved that we could find out.
 
I think it is definitely a fired bullet with signs of impact. If it is Civil War, and I am not sure, it appears to be a carbine bullet. I say that because the base kinda looks solid. If it has a hollow base then it might be an Enfield, as speculated above. Then again it could be a post-war bullet. It does look old though.

Perhaps @Tom Hughes or @UCVRelics can chime in on the issue.
I'm agree that it looks like a fired Enfield.
 
I think it is definitely a fired bullet with signs of impact. If it is Civil War, and I am not sure, it appears to be a carbine bullet. I say that because the base kinda looks solid. If it has a hollow base then it might be an Enfield, as speculated above. Then again it could be a post-war bullet. It does look old though.

Perhaps @Tom Hughes or @UCVRelics can chime in on the issue.
Just by looking at these photos, I would say fired bullet. If it was found in association with other civil war artifacts, I would say it is a period bullet.
 
Interesting observation. If a bullet was fired, would tallow or beeswax be "burned off" (in some way eliminated) due to travel down a barrel filled with super heated gases, possible friction with the barrel, friction from the air it traveled through, friction with whatever it impacted with, and exposure to the elements? If so, what attracted animals to it to gnaw on it? Since we are talking animal modification and not human, with respect to nibbling, we are also talking animal sensory systems. Is there something about lead that animal sniffers might pick up that human sniffers do not?

If a bullet was dropped, how long would the tallow or beeswax remain to attract animals to gnaw on it? I haven't dealt with that many chewed bullets but it seems to me that all gnawed bullets I have noticed appear to have the same patina on the gnawed parts as the rest, indicating that the gnawing was done early-on and not decades after the bullet was exposed to the elements. Is this the case in general? If there is something in lead that would attract animal sniffers is it masked by oxidation? If not, wouldn't most dropped bullets have indications of being gnawed on (having been left in the environment for over 150 years for animals to find), or at least a lot more that we see?

We should also take into consideration what animals are chewing on bullets and whether or not these animals would be attracted to tallow, beeswax, or some other substance and what types of bullets are being chewed, caliber, make, model? There may be some unknown information about small arms ammunition or wildlife biology involved that we could find out.
Pigs have an incredible sense of smell, one that put's a bloodhound's sense of smell to shame. They have more smell receptors in their nose, and a larger portion of their brain dedicated to scent recognition than what any dog has. They can detect odors as small as parts per trillion in air molecules, 6-8 miles away, and as deep as 20 feet underground. So, if there are even trace amounts of tallow or bee's wax left on a dropped bullet, there's a very good change that they can smell those scents on the bullet. If the bullet happened to have been fired, a bullet moving through the air has a has a boundary layer of a few molecules of "dead air" along its' surface. This layer of air would be able to contain molecules of lard and beeswax, especially if that lubricant was hot dipped onto the bullet, which it was. I would suspect the lard would dissolve pretty quickly through biological action, but the bees wax may still be on the bullet for 100's of years. At one time, our ancestors used bees wax to seal containers. In Egyptian tombs, vessels containing honey, sealed with bees' wax have been found and after 4,000 years, the honey inside these vessels was still viable. And lastly, If any bullet is found to have teeth marks in them, I would think that if those teeth marks were made by hogs, it would have happened 100+ years ago. Farmers used to let their hogs run wild, as they are very capable of taking care of themselves, and no wooden fence is going to stop them if they want to get on the other side. In the fall of the year, the farmers would go out and collect their hogs for butchering. It's one reason farmers ear notched the hogs, so they knew what hogs belong to them or their neighbors.

So, if a battle or skirmish occurs in a rural area, within a day or two the hogs, being very curious animals, will move into the area and investigate all of the smells that the fighting produced. Being opportunistic omnivores, the hogs will smell and taste everything left behind to see if any of the detritus of battle is eatable, including the dead.
 
Interesting observation. If a bullet was fired, would tallow or beeswax be "burned off" (in some way eliminated) due to travel down a barrel filled with super heated gases, possible friction with the barrel, friction from the air it traveled through, friction with whatever it impacted with, and exposure to the elements? If so, what attracted animals to it to gnaw on it? Since we are talking animal modification and not human, with respect to nibbling, we are also talking animal sensory systems. Is there something about lead that animal sniffers might pick up that human sniffers do not?

If a bullet was dropped, how long would the tallow or beeswax remain to attract animals to gnaw on it? I haven't dealt with that many chewed bullets but it seems to me that all gnawed bullets I have noticed appear to have the same patina on the gnawed parts as the rest, indicating that the gnawing was done early-on and not decades after the bullet was exposed to the elements. Is this the case in general? If there is something in lead that would attract animal sniffers is it masked by oxidation? If not, wouldn't most dropped bullets have indications of being gnawed on (having been left in the environment for over 150 years for animals to find), or at least a lot more that we see?

We should also take into consideration what animals are chewing on bullets and whether or not these animals would be attracted to tallow, beeswax, or some other substance and what types of bullets are being chewed, caliber, make, model? There may be some unknown information about small arms ammunition or wildlife biology involved that we could find out.

This link will answer your questions:

 
This link will answer your questions:

I have already encountered the claim that pigs chewed bullets. While reading the recent thread about Revolutionary War soldiers chewing lead because it was sweet tasting, I followed links to other articles and found one where a pig's tooth was matched to the indentions on a lead bullet. The link you provided is, I believe, a separate example. I have no doubt that pigs did some bullet chewing. The article you link to suggests pigs as "another source" of tooth marks; in addition to human dentition. The bullets in the article and those in other articles seem to be round balls and not Minié balls.

The image of a page of distorted bullets removed from wounds is also thought provoking. Is there a way to differentiate between a bullet that has been chewed and a similar looking one that has impacted a human body? For that matter, is there a way to differentiate between a bullet that has impacted a human body and one that hasn't? Or one that has impacted a human body and then been chewed afterwards?

In my case, instead of providing a link to answer my questions you have just produced more questions! If I knew how to answer these questions and had the resources to do so, I'd have a PhD dissertation, or a book, or both.
 
I have already encountered the claim that pigs chewed bullets. While reading the recent thread about Revolutionary War soldiers chewing lead because it was sweet tasting, I followed links to other articles and found one where a pig's tooth was matched to the indentions on a lead bullet. The link you provided is, I believe, a separate example. I have no doubt that pigs did some bullet chewing. The article you link to suggests pigs as "another source" of tooth marks; in addition to human dentition. The bullets in the article and those in other articles seem to be round balls and not Minié balls.

The image of a page of distorted bullets removed from wounds is also thought provoking. Is there a way to differentiate between a bullet that has been chewed and a similar looking one that has impacted a human body? For that matter, is there a way to differentiate between a bullet that has impacted a human body and one that hasn't? Or one that has impacted a human body and then been chewed afterwards?

In my case, instead of providing a link to answer my questions you have just produced more questions! If I knew how to answer these questions and had the resources to do so, I'd have a PhD dissertation, or a book, or both.

Crime Scene Investigation is what you are asking for, I believe. In any case, I suggest taking a bite out of a lead bullet will go a long way towards satisfying your curiosity. I, for one, vote for the pigs.
 

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