I learned something new

[NH Civil War Gal]

from the Staff Ride Handbook for the Battle of Chickamauga.

I had NO idea that the US bought about 1,165,000 European rifles and muskets during the war, and nearly all in the first two years.

I thought both sides did all their own gun manufacturing.

There are Confederate estimates that they bought from 340,000 to 400,000.

 

[tbuckley]

Now that You've learned that, maybe you'll want to start studying the fascinating variety of British, Austrian, Belgian, Prussian, and other arms imported during the war. I would suggest the three volumes of Suppliers To The Confederacy by Craig L. Barry and David C. Burt and Firearms From Europe by David Noe, James Whisker, and Larry Yantz.

 

[redbob]

from the Staff Ride Handbook for the Battle of Chickamauga.

I had NO idea that the US bought about 1,165,000 European rifles and muskets during the war, and nearly all in the first two years.

I thought both sides did all their own gun manufacturing.

There are Confederate estimates that they bought from 340,000 to 400,000.

For the first couple of years of the war, the competition for British made weapons was fierce between the Union and the Confederacy; with the Union not canceling their contracts until 1863 and the Confederacy never canceling theirs. The reason why Enfields especially are scarce is that after the War, the Union sold back large numbers of them to English arms dealers to help pay down the Union's war debt. These surplused weapons were then converted into cartridge firing rifles and resold in other markets. A twist to the story, is that the English were able to manufacture large numbers of rifles with interchangeable parts because they had adopted the American method of mass production instead of the hand built method (non interchangeable parts) which they had previously employed.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Are Enfields the most collectible weapon then?

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Now that You've learned that, maybe you'll want to start studying the fascinating variety of British, Austrian, Belgian, Prussian, and other arms imported during the war. I would suggest the three volumes of Suppliers To The Confederacy by Craig L. Barry and David C. Burt and Firearms From Europe by David Noe, James Whisker, and Larry Yantz.

This is a crazy war for such a home grown affair! Yet another area of study. There are no ends to the different facets of this war.

 

[UCVRelics]

Are Enfields the most collectible weapon then?

I wouldn't say they are the most but they are up on the list.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

While I appreciate a good rifle, and I want to learn more about arms in the CW, I can't see myself collecting them - unless I run into the $2.00 Sharps at the yardsale, like somebody did here. I've read what all of you go through trying to find out if it is 1) real 2) altered 3) faked. At least I know, I sure don't know enough to enter that world.

 

[UCVRelics]

Research Research Research and then Research

 

[redbob]

Are Enfields the most collectible weapon then?

It is probably the most available English made weapon, finding a genuine Confederate used one is a considerably more difficult (and expensive) proposition.

 

[redbob]

Research Research Research and then Research

Not everyone can have a Cook & Brothers carbine drop into their laps.

 

[Tailor Pete]

For the first couple of years of the war, the competition for British made weapons was fierce between the Union and the Confederacy; with the Union not canceling their contracts until 1864 and the Confederacy never canceling theirs. The reason why Enfields especially are scarce is that after the War, the Union sold back large numbers of them to English arms dealers to help pay down the Union's war debt. These surplused weapons were then converted into cartridge firing rifles and resold in other markets. A twist to the story, is that the English were able to manufacture large numbers of rifles with interchangeable parts because they had adopted the American method of mass production instead of the hand built method (non interchangeable parts) which they had previously employed.

Then in the 1870's the U.S. Army sold off some of their surplus, unconverted Springfields to Japan for their 'Civil War.'

 

[UCVRelics]

Not everyone can have a Cook & Brothers carbine drop into their laps.

Yea Yea, Without years of research I wouldn't have known what it was.

 

[johan_steele]

Below is a thread with pics of a large portion of the more common carbines, muskets, rifles and rifle muskets used in the ACW.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/original-acw-arms.75615/

 

[John V]

I can tell you where some of the Civil War Springfields went to and when that may surprise you. My great uncle was a liaison for Chang Kai-shek and General Joe Stillwell during WWII. It turns out he ordered and delivered a number of crates of NEW Springfield Civil War muskets to some of the indigenous tribesman of Southeast Asia. It was what they wanted as they were still using black powder and they were quite happy to have them. I did ask him if he kept a couple of rifles back but no such luck.

I can remember he was quite fluent in Chinese dialects and when we out for dinner or dim-sum he would bark at the waiters in Chinese if the order was wrong or not prepared correctly. The waiters were quite impressed how well he spoke Chinese. One time one of restaurant owners recognized him and he had a great conversation about the time they were both fighting the Japanese.

John

 

[19Wyoming]

Nothing quite like hearing these old muskets talk again. I love shooting all of mine. Had a couple barrels relined by R Hoyt but others are still going strong. It's a kick in the butt shooting them. I have a couple of repros, but it's not the same.
It's an addictive and expensive hobby, but a good time. I like looking at them as much as anything.

 

[Tailor Pete]

I can tell you where some of the Civil War Springfields went to and when that may surprise you. My great uncle was a liaison for Chang Kai-shek and General Joe Stillwell during WWII. It turns out he ordered and delivered a number of crates of NEW Springfield Civil War muskets to some of the indigenous tribesman of Southeast Asia. It was what they wanted as they were still using black powder and they were quite happy to have them. I did ask him if he kept a couple of rifles back but no such luck.

I can remember he was quite fluent in Chinese dialects and when we out for dinner or dim-sum he would bark at the waiters in Chinese if the order was wrong or not prepared correctly. The waiters were quite impressed how well he spoke Chinese. One time one of restaurant owners recognized him and he had a great conversation about the time they were both fighting the Japanese.

John

I remember reading an article in a firearms collectors journal some years back about a U.S. service member in Vietnam stumbling across a full crate of P58 Enfield Rifles. At the time our soldiers could bring one souvenir home at the end of their tour, so he tried to take the entire crate... but the government bureaucrats only allowed him one rifle! I also know a former Army Special Forces Soldier who served there in the mid 60's. He too saw a number of old blackpowder arms in use by the mountain tribe members... tried to get them to let go of one, but they wouldn't hear of it!

 

[FiremarshalBill]

It is probably the most available English made weapon, finding a genuine Confederate used one is a considerably more difficult (and expensive) proposition.

Just curious... Is there an easy way to tell if an ACW era British Enfield was purchased by the Federal government or by the Confederate government?

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Just curious... Is there an easy way to tell if an ACW era British Enfield was purchased by the Federal government or by the Confederate government?

Yes, generally a lack of British War Department markings such as WD arrows are a good indication that the arm was a commercial model and has a good probability of being an American import.
There are a plethora of viewers marks used by both sides to mark inspected arms bound for American combatants. Confederate government marks are the best known and there are a number of variants including JS anchors, anchor S, SHC, CH/1, and several others.
Confederate states also marked arms they purchased directly. Those markings include G for Georgia, NC and SC for North and South Carolina respectively, and Hexagram L for Louisiana.

The best reference on Confederate marked British arms is The English Connection by Russ Pritchard.