Historical Reality?

[infomanpa]

With that disclaimer out of the way I would not find a black female reenacting a Union captain any less realistic than 50 year old obese white men playing privates in either army.

They're that young??

 

[Irishtom29]

That may be the case, but what about the vast majority of the US that doesn't live anywhere near an NPS site? The Midwest is dotted with dozens of smaller living histories and re-enactments, full of funnel cake and brisket sandwiches, yes, but providing visibility and access to history that much of the country doesn't get.

The entire country has access to books.

Look here, if people enjoy their hobby that's aces with me. But I don't buy this vital business.

 

[The Ninth Ohio]

The entire country has access to books.

Look here, if people enjoy their hobby that's aces with me. But I don't buy this vital business.

Well I did say most people would agree.

Edit: I can say I wouldn't have gotten nearly as interested in the Civil War if I hadn't experienced a Civil War re-enactment, and I love books.

 

[Belle Montgomery]

In some ways, it boils down to whether the hobby grows or simply withers away.

Look at the VERY popular play Hamilton...race neutral. Sure the story is supposedly a bit inaccurate (I've not seen it) for entertainment purposes but I can't imagine how many may have walked away revisiting the true story after attending it.

 

[Belle Montgomery]

That may be the case, but what about the vast majority of the US that doesn't live anywhere near an NPS site? The Midwest is dotted with dozens of smaller living histories and re-enactments, full of funnel cake and brisket sandwiches, yes, but providing visibility and access to history that much of the country doesn't get.

I would also imagine people like Ted Turner and Edward Zwick, to name a few, would say their projects (which undoubtedly raised awareness of the Civil War) couldn't have been done without reenactors.

I think when talking about the service the reenacting community provides with regard to visibility, "vital" is a very fitting word.

They are all over...even in California!:
http://www.seecalifornia.com/events/california-civil-war-events.html

 

[Si Klegg]

The entire country has access to books.

Look here, if people enjoy their hobby that's aces with me. But I don't buy this vital business.

Well, considering the study and understanding of the Civil War is presumably a vital part of your country's Education Program, I would have thought it a good thing for schoolkids to experience a Living History display in the flesh rather than rely solely on books and video.

It's amazing the rapid understanding a kid - or indeed an adult - gets about why so many soldiers lost limbs in battle when you drop a .69 cal minie ball into their hand!

 

[amweiner]

They are all over...even in California!:
http://www.seecalifornia.com/events/california-civil-war-events.html

Absolutely! It's where I reenacted!

The entire country has access to books.

Yes. I will make a plug for making learning come alive in a way that books just can't. I did a spiel a few years ago for my daughter's class on the War, and the first thing I did was to hand out some of my gear: my forage cap, belt, cartridge box, some percussion caps, Minie balls, etc. It got their attention and, I think, kept them interested in hearing more about the War. Books are wonderful and I love them. At the same time, I also recognize kids and young adults these days are wired towards multimedia and having all of their senses engaged. What a well-worded phrase did for me is often done through something you can touch, smell, taste (in some cases), etc.

 

[The Ninth Ohio]

Absolutely! It's where I reenacted!


Yes. I will make a plug for making learning come alive in a way that books just can't. I did a spiel a few years ago for my daughter's class on the War, and the first thing I did was to hand out some of my gear: my forage cap, belt, cartridge box, some percussion caps, Minie balls, etc. It got their attention and, I think, kept them interested in hearing more about the War. Books are wonderful and I love them. At the same time, I also recognize kids and young adults these days are wired towards multimedia and having all of their senses engaged. What a well-worded phrase did for me is often done through something you can touch, smell, taste (in some cases), etc.

If books were sufficient for learning there would be no need for trade schools.

 

[Pat Young]

Absolutely! It's where I reenacted!


Yes. I will make a plug for making learning come alive in a way that books just can't. I did a spiel a few years ago for my daughter's class on the War, and the first thing I did was to hand out some of my gear: my forage cap, belt, cartridge box, some percussion caps, Minie balls, etc. It got their attention and, I think, kept them interested in hearing more about the War. Books are wonderful and I love them. At the same time, I also recognize kids and young adults these days are wired towards multimedia and having all of their senses engaged. What a well-worded phrase did for me is often done through something you can touch, smell, taste (in some cases), etc.

My fiancé in her fifties came alive when we got to talk to a man who reenacted a hospital steward and a couple of young fellows who were Confederate privates. It teaches kids, but also adults. It is like having a time traveler on the scene.
Edited.

 

[Irishtom29]

If books were sufficient for learning there would be no need for trade schools.

I was a teacher in a trade school and I think it depends on what you're trying to learn. I don't think you have to play Civil War to learn Civil War. And playing Civil War at the expense of reading about it will teach you less than reading.

Now NPS Living History is different to reenacting as there is an intention to serve the public with it, both as entertainment and teaching. But frankly, people who visited the Castillo learned more about gunpowder era fortification and Spanish colonial history talking to me than to most of the Living History folks.

 

[Belle Montgomery]

I'm afraid that too many of these big events are going into the realm of ridiculous, letting anyone show up in whatever they want to wear with zero adherence to historical accuracy and no enforcement at all of impression guidelines (if any exist). I think frustrated would be a better way of describing your situation. You're not alone, here.

My fiancé in her fifties came alive when we got to talk to a man who reenacted a hospital steward and a couple of young fellows who were Confederate privates. It teaches kids, but also adults. It is like having a time traveler on the scene. Edited.

SO TRUE!!! As well as I feel I'm time traveling when reenacting too!...just waiting to find that time travel "worm hole" scientists speak of to jump into too! Although I pray I don't go forward like in HG Wells' novel!

 

[The Ninth Ohio]

I was a teacher in a trade school and I think it depends on what you're trying to learn. I don't think you have to play Civil War to learn Civil War. And playing Civil War at the expense of reading about it will teach you less than reading.

Now NPS Living History is different to reenacting as there is an intention to serve the public with it, both as entertainment and teaching. But frankly, people who visited the Castillo learned more about gunpowder era fortification and Spanish colonial history talking to me than to most of the Living History folks.

Living histories are not exclusive to NPS sites. For every re-enactment here in flyover country there are a dozen small living histories at local parks where the public is invited to interact. I and many I know have and continue to do school presentations.

The kids that walk through our camps are getting a look at something, even if it's just a glimpse as someone said above, that you can't get from a book nearly as easily.

"This is what a company street looked like."

Vs.

"Here's a copy of 1861 regs. Get readin', kid!"

It's fine though, you obviously have one opinion, we reenactors and those who come see us have another. To each their own.

 

[Zella]

Absolutely! It's where I reenacted!
Yes. I will make a plug for making learning come alive in a way that books just can't. I did a spiel a few years ago for my daughter's class on the War, and the first thing I did was to hand out some of my gear: my forage cap, belt, cartridge box, some percussion caps, Minie balls, etc. It got their attention and, I think, kept them interested in hearing more about the War. Books are wonderful and I love them. At the same time, I also recognize kids and young adults these days are wired towards multimedia and having all of their senses engaged. What a well-worded phrase did for me is often done through something you can touch, smell, taste (in some cases), etc.

There really is something about seeing the stuff in person that makes a difference. The class I took in college on the Civil War was excellent. However, even though I am an avid reader, I can't really remember anything I specifically learned in the lectures, readings, or class projects. (Except for how much I hate group projects.) But the day a reenactor was the guest speaker and showed us his uniforms and how to load a musket and the size of those minie balls and made us eat hardtack is still firmly in my memory several years after the fact.

 

[mofederal]

I was a hardcore authentic. I preferred it. I still do and would if I could physically do it. When I reenacted what we used was the 10 foot rule. I don't care if women reenact, but only if they can pass the 10 foot rule. No women ever fell in with the units I served with at the time, until later when I did WWII. Some units had women in them portraying G.I.'s We used the ten foot rule at WWII events, but not in WWII living history events where we strictly adhered to WWII soldiers, nurses or WACs. In reality women who disguised themselves as men to fight had to fool men from a foot or inches. So I thought 10 feet rule was ok at the time. Now I could care less. When I saw the first photos of the women who reenacted as men, even in a formation, I could pick them out. If I remember she threatened a lawsuit or brought one. I cannot remember. I am not in charge, so it is not my problem, it is someone else's headache. I believe in historical accuracy, but know it is mostly a dream. But I do believe in 100% in historical accuracy, especially in movies, because I cannot suspend disbelief, I know what to look for in really early history. Yes I have seen recreated Roman Legionnare equipment and tunics, etc. History major and I had a lot of research into historical clothing and costumes. I am short a few hours of a master's degree. I always did my best to follow the rules of my individual unit and I did not care what the hillbillies did on either side. I always had a problem with inauthentic headgear, and always strived to improve my own. The younger generation now has it's chance. I hope they can find a balance, but if a unit is going the hardcore authentic route, it should be their choice, but in the age of the lawsuit for passing gas in the wrong spot. I would disband a unit rather than let someone dictate to them what they have to do under the law. So I doubt anyone will enforce any historical rules on anyone, it is left to a unit. So I think finding a better unit is the only answer and ignore those other units as best you can. My opinion is mine and this is something reenactors will have to decide for themselves. There are good units out there on each side, one only has to find them.

 

[Legion Para]

I have given the original posting much thought over the past couple of days and read through the responses several times.

I strongly believe we are doing a great injustice by failing to portray our history accurately.

The idea of a black female officer leading an Infantry Company into battle at Gettysburg is absurd. No American female officer has ever lead a Ground unit into combat . Only recently have American female officers been assigned to Infantry units.

I'm okay with a female reenactor/living historian who wants to portray a known woman who served in the Civil War, but to do it randomly is wrong.

Most mainstream events, particularly national reenactments, historically leave a great deal to be desired. Smaller campaigner events are more accurate, rewarding and enjoyable for individuals seeking such.

If historical accuracy really matters to you @Redcoat, then I suggest you seriously consider joining a more progressive campaigner unit.

While there has been some research done on Asians during the American Civil War and books published, there is more to be done on this subject. I think its great that @grace is interested in Civil War and became a member of the forum. I am willing to help her any way I can. With that said, finding historically accurate roles to portray will be difficult.

***Note: Has anyone here taken a close look at @Redcoat's avatar?

Three men, all from New Brunswick, died while defending Little Round Top on July 2nd as members of the 20th Maine, including: Alexander Lester, age 18, Aaron Adams, age 27, and George Leach, age 25. In all, at least two dozen Canadians are known to have been killed or wounded as a result of the three days at Gettysburg.

 

[kevikens]

As an aside, I did see a young black man playing Confederate at the 155th Gettysburg. I thought that was great.

Actually one was more likely to have found a young black man in arms with Confederate forces in 1863 than the likelihood of finding what the OP described as what he noted that day. From my own perspective having done many, many years of both Civil War and Revolutionary War reenactment, I'll go along with pretty much anything as long as it was plausible for the time period. We have had female soldiers for some time. They dress and look and comport themselves on the battlefield as male soldiers and that's fine. That is plausible. But I draw the line when some guy shows up with a percussion musket at a winter Valley Forge encampment. No joke, but we had a guy show up to a Rev War event with a Colt dragoon revolver and the event had to be delayed while the officers decided whether to allow it or not. Apparently the guy was some kind of sponsor or official . The decision was that he could use it but was not allowed to fire the arm more than one shot a minute. Grrr. No, I don't think reenactors should be required to get rid of their contact lenses, or pry the fillings out of their teeth, but I do think there is an obligation on the part of reenactors to do things as they might really have been done, otherwise it is just grown up kids game playing cops and robbers, fun, but little more than that.

 

[kevikens]

This is something I deal with as an Asian girl...any other thoughts?

The poster might want to read what I wrote about "plausibility" just above. If it could have plausibly happened we allowed it. No problem with females in uniform on a battlefield. It actually happened. As for the Asian part, that too, was in the realm of possibility. Our Rev War unit was a British regiment. Some of its officers and men may have served with the Honorable British East India Company in Asia and returned with Asian batmen or aides who assumed a combat role in America. We had a couple Asian gentleman in the unit and that was their curriculum vitae. I don't know how likely that was but is was plausible and therefore acceptable. As for Asians in the Continental forces, there was so much trade involving the Far East in the 18th Century that the presence of Asians in America, especially from the East Indies (Malays) was actually probable, especially in the Continental Navy and the privateers. Also from Asian trade, especially the whaling industry, Asians were on the East Coast of the US at the time of the Civil War and on the West Coast from the California gold fields, Again, Asians in the American Civil War was not fantasy but a very real possibility and if that is the case then it ought to be permissible. But, also, again, if the portrayal is implausible (like anachronistic gear), Joan of Arc showing up to aid the French, a Jeff Davis camel battalion sweeping the field at Manassas, well maybe you can get away with this on TV where the forces are trapped in a time warp by aliens from Uranus, but whatever that is it's not historical reenactment.

 

[amweiner]

I have given the original posting much thought over the past couple of days and read through the responses several times.

I strongly believe we are doing a great injustice by failing to portray our history accurately.

The idea of a black female officer leading an Infantry Company into battle at Gettysburg is absurd. No American female officer has ever lead a Ground unit into combat . Only recently have American female officers been assigned to Infantry units.

I'm okay with a female reenactor/living historian who wants to portray a known woman who served in the Civil War, but to do it randomly is wrong.

Most mainstream events, particularly national reenactments, historically leave a great deal to be desired. Smaller campaigner events are more accurate, rewarding and enjoyable for individuals seeking such.

If historical accuracy really matters to you @Redcoat, then I suggest you seriously consider joining a more progressive campaigner unit.

While there has been some research done on Asians during the American Civil War and books published, there is more to be done on this subject. I think its great that @grace is interested in Civil War and became a member of the forum. I am willing to help her any way I can. With that said, finding historically accurate roles to portray will be difficult.

***Note: Has anyone here taken a close look at @Redcoat's avatar?

View attachment 197032

Three men, all from New Brunswick, died while defending Little Round Top on July 2nd as members of the 20th Maine, including: Alexander Lester, age 18, Aaron Adams, age 27, and George Leach, age 25. In all, at least two dozen Canadians are known to have been killed or wounded as a result of the three days at Gettysburg.

View attachment 197033 View attachment 197033 View attachment 197033 View attachment 197033 View attachment 197033

I hear what you're saying, and at the same time feel that there's a bit of a slippery slope to all of this. I am with you in the sense that we should be demonstrating as much fidelity as possible to historical accuracy - after all, without it we might have people dressed as Jedi Masters battling Knights Templar, all of whom are sporting MG-42s at an event portraying the Wilderness. We absolutely have to try our best to represent the period!

On the flip side, does this mean we'll start measuring BMIs and going all Logan's Run on people over a certain "acceptable" age/weight/etc? Without our suspension of disbelief, should we do away with battle reenactments altogether (or conversely, start using live rounds for greater authenticity)?

I come back to my earlier point that everyone who reenacts does so with their own needs and agenda. I feel strongly, although others have disagreed here, that I want to open a door for others to get excited about the time period and learn more. Some here have expressed their own desire to immerse themselves for their own learning. As someone who's reenacted Civil War and WW2, I got different things from each portrayal. I enjoyed sparking interest in the public at Civil War events and encouraging people to learn. I also enjoyed far-ranging, day long WW2 tactical events without spectators, where tanks almost turned me into hummus.

I cannot believe that one is "right" and one is "wrong", but we all have different needs that we're meeting by participating in these different types of events. I will take exception to one poster who suggested that if it's not being done "correctly" that it amounts to little more than "cops and robbers". That person is certainly entitled to his opinion, but I find it dismissive of the experience I or any other reenactor has who's less than 100% period correct.

 

[James N.]

Why would anyone join a group that excludes people based on race? Jeez, why would any public facility allow that group to use its space?

In this case I believe it's called authenticity. This whole thread makes me glad I've retired from reenacting.

 

[mofederal]

Which Logan's Run are we referring to, the 21 or 30 age of renewal. The hobby has to change one way or the other, but it needs to still strive for historical accuracy. In the reality of the Civil War, a mix of soldiers fought, Asian, Pacific Islanders Blacks, Indians, and others. Chang and Eng's sons fought for the Confederacy, so we were from all races and countries and religions. So you have a right to reenact, you just need to find the right group. There are good units out there, in whatever period you choose. I enjoyed WWII the most of all. I guess it the connection to the vets. My advice is for you to have the best impression you can and never be afraid to defend it, or improve it. Doing NPS Living History is a different animal. I did it for awhile and enjoyed, but as everything you had to love it. The events I loved the best were the private WWII events. No public, although I also enjoyed the living history aspect also. He y I know people who reenact The Man From Uncle. That's all I know about it. That has to be different.