What is this? Help With ID

[ladyoutlaw03]

Good afternoon,

I recently came into possession of a fairly unique single shot percussion pistol and could use some help identifying exactly what I have here. From my own research,it appears to be of Prussian design. However there seems to be Belgian markings on the lock plate,and the "Prussian safety" is unlike anything I've seen on other existing examples. But more importantly,is this something that could have been imported and used during the War,or brought over after for whatever reason?

Also , while not completely necessary,if anyone could offer an appraisal it would be greatly appreciated as I am looking to sell it to help with some medical bills. Thanks!

 

[JackADriscoll]

These were made by a firm called malherbe obviously. Nothing on the auction market like it has sold lately and his prices are all over the place. This is a pretty unique looking item. I do not think that I can comfortably estimate a price on it.

 

[JOHN42768]

It is quit unique.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

This was a flintlock pistol converted to percussion

 

[R. Porter]

This was a flintlock pistol converted to percussion

You beat me to it! I'm in KY where the Verizon cel towers were taken out by bad weather a few days ago with no estimate on when they'll be fixed. I'm a guest on a different network.

 

[S.Isaacson]

This was a flintlock pistol converted to percussion

People often think that of Continental European percussion firearms, but that isn't generally the case. This pistol sure looks like a Belgian copy of a Prussian Model 1850 pistol using an odd hammer stall rather than the Prussian version that encircles the cap/nipple. P.J. Malherbe & Cie was active c. 1850-1869.

 

[JackADriscoll]

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/products/148490-prussian-model-1850-percussion-pistol-ah6265.html

I agree but I'm not sure it's a copy more of an augment. Some of his show pieces bring some nice prices. I dig the pistol a lot.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

My comment was based on the general form of this pistol, not specific knowledge about this particular maker or model.
That said, however, the lock looks like a flintlock with the frizzen spring left in place, and the frizzen replaced with that curved safety, and the flint pan modified by cutting it back.
I have seen photos before of pistols with a similar safety device.
The design is a modification of a flintlock or tubelock, even if it was newly made and not a modification of an already manufactured flintlock.

 

[DixieRifles]

No ramrod. Does that make it a dueling pistol??

 

[JackADriscoll]

Nouvelle page 0

littlegun.be

Here is a great website on this maker. Its en francais though

 

[S.Isaacson]

No ramrod. Does that make it a dueling pistol??

Nope.

 

[S.Isaacson]

My comment was based on the general form of this pistol, not specific knowledge about this particular maker or model.
That said, however, the lock looks like a flintlock with the frizzen spring left in place, and the frizzen replaced with that curved safety, and the flint pan modified by cutting it back.
I have seen photos before of pistols with a similar safety device.
The design is a modification of a flintlock or tubelock, even if it was newly made and not a modification of an already manufactured flintlock.

"This was a flintlock pistol converted to percussion" definitely sounds like you are saying it was a flintlock originally and then converted. I'm not trying to start an argument. My comment was simply to add clarification. I wasn't uncommon for Germanic percussion guns to have hammer stalls/safeties fitted in a similar fashion to earlier frizzens and frizzen springs. You'll find them on both sporting guns and some military guns, but these weren't "conversions" of flintlocks.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Yes, as you say and I thought I had said, my comment was not based on knowledge about this particular maker or model of pistol.
Perhaps the maker already had the jigs and machining set up to make flintlock (or tubelock) pistol locks, and kept using it after ending the manufacture of flintlocks.

 

[R. Porter]

My comment was based on the general form of this pistol, not specific knowledge about this particular maker or model.
That said, however, the lock looks like a flintlock with the frizzen spring left in place, and the frizzen replaced with that curved safety, and the flint pan modified by cutting it back.
I have seen photos before of pistols with a similar safety device.
The design is a modification of a flintlock or tubelock, even if it was newly made and not a modification of an already manufactured flintlock.

Once again you posted the pertinent observations first!

 

[R. Porter]

Based on what I've seen of converted flintlocks, this pistol looks the part. I don't have the knowledge of European firearms to argue over the issue, but I do have the interest to learn something new. There seem to be an endless supply of oddballs and things you thought you knew but didn't when it comes to firearms.

 

[R. Porter]

Nouvelle page 0

littlegun.be

Here is a great website on this maker. Its en francais though

What a super resource! The version I linked to was in English, but it linked to a home page with links to other gun makers A through Z. The other pages I checked were in English. Thanks!

 

[Old Soldier]

Yes, as you say and I thought I had said, my comment was not based on knowledge about this particular maker or model of pistol.
Perhaps the maker already had the jigs and machining set up to make flintlock (or tubelock) pistol locks, and kept using it after ending the manufacture of flintlocks.

This item featured on the M1850 pistol for Prussian cavalry - the last single shot pistol adopted by the Prussian army.

Many seem to have had the safety lever removed. The lack of a ramrod usually indicated a cavalry pistol - the rod being held in the holster.

BTW - Belgian Gunmakers. They were organised in the same way to many British gunmakers - subcontracting to small gun- and component-makers. The name on the pistol is not necessarily the manufacturer. They were VERY good at copying guns patented elsewhere and often adopted time-expired patents - if it sold well. Note that the safety lever on this pistol is not an exact copy of the Prussian one - another Belgian gunmaker's ploy. A classic example was the Colt 1851 pistol which was manufactured up to 1914 and sold well in Turkey up until then!

This barrel does not appear to be proofed meaning that it COULD be a converted flintlock originally manufactured before 1810. Proof mark source: https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf