Help Needed on Signature?

[lelliott19]

In process of helping @Al Murray access some records for Asa Moneypenny of Co C 10th WV

Wondering if anyone can read the signatures on these two documents?

 

[Stony]

Asa Money Penny?

 

[lakertaker]

Sorry.... don't even have a good guess!

 

[Al Murray]

The first one look like "Duncan Smith" to me and the second like "J V Hayden" but that is a first reading with bad eyes. I'll make a JPEG out of them and enlarge it and take another look.

Thanks Laura!!

Asa Money Penny?

Yeah the surname Moneypenny is rare and lots of people get a kick out of it. They came from Ireland, but not many of them. Remember Miss Moneypenny the secretary in the old James Bond 007 movies? Same name but I've noticed that there aren't many on this side of the pond

Al

 

[Stony]

Yea I thought about Bond. lol

 

[DixieRifles]

I agree -- Duncan Smith.

Is there any document or site that lists the Medical personnel in the Union Army? That would be an easy way to identify that 2nd signature. Or search the OR's

 

[AndyHall]

Ferdinand Vandiveer Hayden

Residence was not listed;
Enlisted on 2/19/1863 as a Surgeon.

On 2/19/1863 he was commissioned into
US Volunteers Medical Staff Vols
He Resigned on 6/22/1865


Promotions:
* Lt Colonel 6/1/1865 by Brevet


Other Information:
born in Massachusetts
died 12/22/1888

Sources used by Historical Data Systems, Inc.:

- Index to Compiled Military Service Records
- Heitman: Register of United States Army 1789-1903
(c) Historical Data Systems, Inc. @ www.civilwardata.com

 

[DixieRifles]

Hey I just found him, too.
This Google Book says he was assigned to Winchester at that time.
Bio starts on page 325. The next page mentions Winchester.
https://books.google.com/books?id=-skKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA326&dq=Winchester Vir 1865 Surgeon chief medical officer 1865&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_8vgVJ7kFceMNoOZgfgB&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Winchester Vir 1865 Surgeon chief medical officer 1865&f=false

 

[Al Murray]

I know that the National Archives has actual records for that Union hospital at Beverly, WV, because a friend of mine used them. Since Huskerblitz pointed out that the POW lists and the Regimental Returns are free on-line, I would not be surprised if there is something available on the hospitals also. I never would have found them because I am the worst guy on earth at searching on line (I try but never have the luck my friends do). If anyone knows what I would put in the search bar to get to it I'm all ears.

Al

 

[lelliott19]

Ferdinand Vandiveer Hayden

Residence was not listed;
Enlisted on 2/19/1863 as a Surgeon.

On 2/19/1863 he was commissioned into
US Volunteers Medical Staff Vols
He Resigned on 6/22/1865

Good find @AndyHall . Anything on the other signature? Everyone else thinks it looks like Duncan Smith, but I think it could be Duncan (S or L) Miller.

 

[lelliott19]

I agree -- Duncan Smith.

Is there any document or site that lists the Medical personnel in the Union Army? That would be an easy way to identify that 2nd signature. Or search the OR's

Ok I just found a carded record for a Duncan H Smith who enlisted in Co E 1st NY Veteran Cavalry as a Private and left the service as a Sergeant Major. I know Sgt Maj was the honorary rank bestowed on surgeons in the CSA so I assume the same was true in the Union army? Its just an index card so no further info here, but a possibility.

Edit: The honorary rank for Surgeons in CSA was Surgeon Major NOT Sgt Major. Thanks for pointing out the error @Frederick14Va

 

[Al Murray]

Good find @AndyHall . Anything on the other signature? Everyone else thinks it looks like Duncan Smith, but I think its Duncan (S or L) Miller.

You might be right. I notice (now) that there is no crossing of the "T". Beyond that I can't tell.

Why would Asa M. have done so much nursing? He was young enough to effectively march and fight. He grew up on a little subsistence farm in a big family with poor parents. So far as I can tell none of his siblings ever distinguished themselves nor went much beyond subsistence living. In short, no evidence of particular training. I had another uncle who was a lawyer when he enlisted yet they started him right on the line with the grunts (he was eventually commissioned - that became a comedy).

 

[AndyHall]

I believe the first signature is Duncan S. Walker.

____________

Duncan Stephen Walker

Residence was not listed; 21 years old.

Enlisted on 2/27/1863 as a Captain.

On 2/27/1863 he was commissioned into
US Volunteers Adjutant Genl Dept
He Resigned on 5/12/1865


Promotions:
* Capt 2/27/1863 (Captain & Asst Adjutant General)
* Major 7/27/1864 (Major & Asst Adjutant General)
* Lt Colonel 11/7/1864 (Lt Colonel & Asst Adjutant General)
* Brig-General 3/13/1865 by Brevet


Other Information:
born 11/11/1841 in Washington, DC
died 6/3/1912 in Hoboken, NJ

Sources used by Historical Data Systems, Inc.:

- Dyer: A Compendium of the War of the Rebellion
- Heitman: Register of United States Army 1789-1903
- Brevet Brigadier Generals in Blue
- Photo courtesy of Massachusetts Commandery of MOLLUS
(c) Historical Data Systems, Inc. @ www.civilwardata.com

 

[lelliott19]

Why would Asa M. have done so much nursing? He was young enough to effectively march and fight. He grew up on a little subsistence farm in a big family with poor parents. So far as I can tell none of his siblings ever distinguished themselves nor went much beyond subsistence living. In short, no evidence of particular training.

I cant speak for the Union Army, but as for the CSA, when a man was sick or wounded and hospitalized, it was almost like a rehab thing. If they were still too sick or wounded to march and live in camp, but still better off than others in the hospital, they would keep them there as a 'nurse' as sort of a 'transition' back to the Regiment. As for specialized training, nursing then wasnt really like you think of it today. Think of a barn or group of tents or a warehouse in town that has been taken over for hospital use with rows of wounded/sick men on beds or straw pallets. A male 'nurse' or Hospital Aid would bring food & water, change bandages, help with personal care, etc. Matrons - female nurse types - fed soldiers who couldnt manage on their own, helped soldiers write letters home, read letters from home, rolled bandages, served meals, suggested special diets, etc.

 

[DixieRifles]

Here is a copy of a item from ORs that connects a staff officer named "Duncan" with General Hancock. The signature on the 1st page you posted is below the name "Hancock", even though the form is typed with General Sheridan.

 

[DixieRifles]

Dang, Andy. You beat me again.

 

[DixieRifles]

I cant speak for the Union Army, but as for the CSA, when a man was sick or wounded and hospitalized, it was almost like a rehab thing. If they were still too sick or wounded to march and live in camp, but still better off than others in the hospital, they would keep them there as a 'nurse' as sort of a 'transition' back to the Regiment. As for specialized training, nursing then wasnt really like you think of it today. Think of a barn or group of tents or a warehouse in town that has been taken over for hospital use with rows of wounded/sick men on beds or straw pallets. A male 'nurse' or Hospital Aid would bring food & water, change bandages, help with personal care, etc. Matrons - female nurse types - fed soldiers who couldnt manage on their own, helped soldiers write letters home, read letters from home, rolled bandages, served meals, suggested special diets, etc.

One wounded soldier I found worked as a nurse and the doctor applied for a transfer for him so he could keep him.

 

[Frederick14Va]

"Sergeant Major" was a senior enlisted rank-rate. Generally each respective regiment had one. The ranking doesn't have anything to do with medical staff.

"Matron"... title generally implied was a female in a hospital administrator role...

 

[E_just_E]

Yes, it is Duncan Steven Walker. For reference, here is another piece of his handwriting:

 

[lelliott19]

Yes, it is Duncan Steven Walker. For reference, here is another piece of his handwriting:

WOW! Beautiful handwriting!

Here is a copy of a item from ORs that connects a staff officer named "Duncan" with General Hancock. The signature on the 1st page you posted is below the name "Hancock", even though the form is typed with General Sheridan.

Good find @DixieRifles !

I believe the first signature is Duncan S. Walker.

Great work @AndyHall !

"Sergeant Major" was a senior enlisted rank-rate. Generally each respective regiment had one. The ranking doesn't have anything to do with medical staff.

Thanks @Frederick14Va I had no idea. My gggrandfather was a Surgeon. I think I was confusing his rank of Surgeon Major with Sgt Major. Thanks for the info!

The incredible folks at CWT have done it again for you @Al Murray