Help identifying rifle

[scooter748driver]

I'm still researching the weapons that may have been issued to my relatives who served with the 22nd Virginia Cavalry and the 50th Virginia Infantry. I ran across some information today that stated that the company my relatives served with in the 50th (Company H) were issued "Barrett rifles" (Barrett rifles were issued to Company H. As a revealing indicator of the suspect quality and completeness of the training regime, Company H apparently never fired its rifles before departing for the field. When it did, they learned that the rush to produce those rifles had led to a loss in quality.)

I've searched for "Barrett rifle" as a Civil War arm but have only turned up info on modern rifles. Would anyone have information as to what a "Barrett rifle" is/was?

thank you.

 

[Kurt G]

I would think this actually refers to the Barnett Model 1853 Enfield . Probably a transcription error.

 

[johan_steele]

Agree with Kurt on this.

 

[JimW]

I'd Agree, unless maybe there was a time travel incident...

 

[UCVRelics]

I'm still researching the weapons that may have been issued to my relatives who served with the 22nd Virginia Cavalry and the 50th Virginia Infantry. I ran across some information today that stated that the company my relatives served with in the 50th (Company H) were issued "Barrett rifles" (Barrett rifles were issued to Company H. As a revealing indicator of the suspect quality and completeness of the training regime, Company H apparently never fired its rifles before departing for the field. When it did, they learned that the rush to produce those rifles had led to a loss in quality.)

I've searched for "Barrett rifle" as a Civil War arm but have only turned up info on modern rifles. Would anyone have information as to what a "Barrett rifle" is/was?

thank you.

The weapon it was.

 

[bayonet]

The Barnett family had a long history of making weapons in England from 1750-1900. The CW time frame maker would of been John Barnett & Sons 1835 to 1875. They were under Royal Government contract to make muskets/rifles with brass fittings.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Actually, the guns in question were the product of A.B. Barrett & Co of Wytheville, Virginia. Barrett is best known for the muskets he altered to percussion in late 1861 and 1862 for Virginia, but in 1861 he also produced an unknown number of rifles that he made by reworking sporting rifles. Since no bills or contract information survive that describe the arms in detail, and no positively identified guns survive we don't know much about them other than what was reported in a letter by John Floyd regarding the Barrett rifles that had been issued to Company H of the 50th Virginia. When tried by the men it was found that "three of the tubes were loose in the cylinder" and that two of the guns "were found to be of different calibers from the rest, rendering the common ball useless." He also noted that "three of these guns have broken off at the breech, having been stocked with brittle walnut sawed across the grain."

From Floyd's description we can infer that the rifles were made with recycled sporting rifle parts, with the barrels rebored to .54 caliber, and the guns restocked in a more military fashion. The rifles were also percussioned with drum bolsters.

Barrett's work percussion altering muskets was much better received. And in 1862 he delivered another 60 "Mississippi Rifles" that appear to have been of much better quality than his first rifles. He later sought a contract with the CS Ordnance Department for rifles and sent a sample to that end in 1863, but was unsuccessful in obtaining the contract.

 

[UCVRelics]

Actually, the guns in question were the product of A.B. Barrett & Co of Wytheville, Virginia. Barrett is best known for the muskets he altered to percussion in late 1861 and 1862 for Virginia, but in 1861 he also produced an unknown number of rifles that he made by reworking sorting rifles. Since no bills or contract information survive that describe the arms in detail, and no positively identified guns survive we don't know much about them other than what was reported in a letter by John Floyd regarding the Barrett rifles that had been issued to Company H of the 50th Virginia. When tried by the men it was found that "three of the tubes were loose in the cylinder" and that two of the guns "were found to be of different calibers from the rest, rendering the common ball useless." He also noted that "three of these gun have broken off at the breech, having been stocked with brittle walnut sawed across the grain."

From Floyd's description we can infer that the rifles were made with recycled sporting rifle parts, with the barrels rebored to .54 caliber, and the guns restocked in a more military fashion. The rifles were also percussioned with drum bolsters.

Barrett's work percussion altering muskets was much better received. And in 1862 he delivered another 60 "Mississippi Rifles" that appear to have been of much better quality than his first rifles. He later sought a contract with the CS Ordnance Department for rifles and sent a sample to that end in 1863, but was unsuccessful in obtaining the contract.

Thanks Garyrock, that is awesome info.

 

[scooter748driver]

Thank you Grayrock. That's great info! You seem to have info on the 50th Virginia and Company H - would you happen to know what these rifles were replaced with or rifles issued to other companies?

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Thank you Grayrock. That's great info! You seem to have info on the 50th Virginia and Company H - would you happen to know what these rifles were replaced with or rifles issued to other companies?

The information I have is found in Confederate Rifles and Muskets. At one point I had been digging into some of the CSRs of guys in the Virginia State Line regiments in support of a research project on Confederate armament at Forts Henry and Donelson. One of the other contributors posted a return that would be of interest, though unfortunately it did not include a date the return was made. Since I wasn't heading the project I did not pursue the source, but I am confident that the return would have been dated from no later than the very first part of February 1862, since any later than that and the information would have been worthless for the project.

It is quite possible that the arms described as "rifles" are the Barrett rifles. Confederate Rifles and Muskets notes 28 belonging to Company H as the guns tested. The nine defects listed in the report would just about add up if one of the guns had multiple issues. For what it is worth, the 85 "Rifle Muskets" may have also been A.B. Barrett guns as he is known to have rifled some of the muskets he altered to percussion. If an ordnance return for ammunition could be located that did not list .58 caliber ammunition it could verify that theory.

Best,
Garrett

 

[scooter748driver]

Wow! That's fantastic! Thank you so much. I'm not surprised given the region the 50th was from that there'd be such a variety of arms and even include flintlocks. It gives a very good picture in miniature of the issues facing both sides early in the war but especially the rural southern units.

I will have to check out Confederate Rifles and Muskets. Thank you again and please feel free to share or message me with any other info you have of find on the 50th Virginia.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Wow! That's fantastic! Thank you so much. I'm not surprised given the region the 50th was from that there'd be such a variety of arms and even include flintlocks. It gives a very good picture in miniature of the issues facing both sides early in the war but especially the rural southern units.

I will have to check out Confederate Rifles and Muskets. Thank you again and please feel free to share or message me with any other info you have of find on the 50th Virginia.

You're very welcome. Confederate Rifles and Muskets is pretty expensive, but if you are interested in Confederate longarms it is a must have. If you're not ready to commit to the $300+ for a volume you may be able to get a copy through an interlibrary loan. The index in the back is organized so that you can look for select regiments in the text, which is very handy for researching a particular unit's weaponry.

 

[gjpratt]

I'm still researching the weapons that may have been issued to my relatives who served with the 22nd Virginia Cavalry and the 50th Virginia Infantry. I ran across some information today that stated that the company my relatives served with in the 50th (Company H) were issued "Barrett rifles" (Barrett rifles were issued to Company H. As a revealing indicator of the suspect quality and completeness of the training regime, Company H apparently never fired its rifles before departing for the field. When it did, they learned that the rush to produce those rifles had led to a loss in quality.)

I've searched for "Barrett rifle" as a Civil War arm but have only turned up info on modern rifles. Would anyone have information as to what a "Barrett rifle" is/was?

thank you.

@scooter748driver what is the source of this informatio?

 

[scooter748driver]

From this site:

tmsmith

There are references sited at the bottom. I can't confirm that it's completely accurate but with the info provided by Grayrock above it seems to have some legitimacy to it.

 

[scooter748driver]

Found this on the web:


Barrett Muskets and Rifled Muskets

(image Courtesy Milwaukee Public Museum, Milwaukee, Wisconsin)
Overall length 57.75"; barrel length 41.5" to 42"; caliber .69. Markings: although Barretts placed no marks of their own, on their alterations most were effected on Virginia Manufactory muskets, whose lockplates are marked "VIRGINIA/Manufactory" forward of hammer and "RICHMOND/(date)" on tail. For many years collectors considered adaptations of Hall rifles and carbines from breech-loaders to muzzle-loaders to be the product of J.B. Barrett & Co. of Wytheville. Recent evidence, however, confirms that those adaptations were actually effected in Danville, Virginia, by another firm (see READ & WATSON). Nevertheless, Barretts of Wytheville did adapt arms during early years of American Civil War. Adaptation effected almost exclusively upon Virginia Manufactory flintlock muskets, consisted of percussioning by means of cone-in-barrel and rifling of barrels with seven narrow grooves. In 1861 and 1862, Barretts percussioned a total of 1250 muskets, of which 744 were rifled.

There is also this ad in the Wytheville Dispatch on 22 August 1862:

50 GUN SMITHS and other mechanics accustomed to iron work. Persons subject to military duty willbe detailed. August 15 A. B. BARRETT A CO.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

@grayrock-volunteer.

You nailed it.
The Barrett alterations/repairs saw hard use and are very hard to locate in decent condition, most likely because they were poorly made and assembled. Read & Watson's are equally rare.