Help Identifying Gun

[finstro1]

Requesting help identifying a gun that has passed down several generations in my family. Sorry to admit I have neglected the gun so it's not in the best of condition. I apologize the photo's included here are not good at all and rust has taken it's toll.

I was told the gun came back from the civil war with one of my ancestor's and since I need to get ready to pass it to my son's and grandson's I'd like to get it identified so we know what it is.

I've looked on line and have a book on Civil War Guns and this one resembles several I've found but the firing mechanism is somewhat different. One of the markings looks like an "M" to me so I've looked at gun makers starting with an "M" but have not found it yet. The gun barrel inside measures about .75"(sorry I don't own any calipers to measure) so maybe it's a .71 caliber? Maybe took a paper cartridge? Yes I'm guessing.

Any help appreciated

Finstro1

 

[UCVRelics]

Looks like a French Snider rifle.

 

[johan_steele]

This is a French/Belgian ACW era arm that has been converted to metallic cartridge. It did not serve in the ACW era. These are often called Zulu or African conversions. Most were bored smooth and sold as shotguns in the African trade. The French sold them off en masse after the Franco Prussian War and they flooded the surplus market. So I can guarantee no one brought her back from the ACW.

 

[Conquerordie]

I purchased one of these with like a 20 inch barrel at a garage sale when I was a kid. It's marked HUNTER on the barrel. I still have, but yeah, not Civil War.

 

[bayonet]

Don't feel bad I also inherited an item many years ago passed down the line that too turned out to be total BS! Sold it at auction and later purchased the real deal.

 

[finstro1]

Don't feel bad I also inherited an item many years ago passed down the line that too turned out to be total BS! Sold it at auction and later purchased the real deal.

Thanks for your reply. I'm really disappointed to find this out

 

[finstro1]

This is a French/Belgian ACW era arm that has been converted to metallic cartridge. It did not serve in the ACW era. These are often called Zulu or African conversions. Most were bored smooth and sold as shotguns in the African trade. The French sold them off en masse after the Franco Prussian War and they flooded the surplus market. So I can guarantee no one brought her back from the ACW.

Okay thank you at least I know more than I did. Any idea whom manufactured them and what year and what the markings stand for? Like the "M" that appears to be stamped into the side plate?

 

[finstro1]

Requesting help identifying a gun that has passed down several generations in my family. Sorry to admit I have neglected the gun so it's not in the best of condition. I apologize the photo's included here are not good at all and rust has taken it's toll.

I was told the gun came back from the civil war with one of my ancestor's and since I need to get ready to pass it to my son's and grandson's I'd like to get it identified so we know what it is.

I've looked on line and have a book on Civil War Guns and this one resembles several I've found but the firing mechanism is somewhat different. One of the markings looks like an "M" to me so I've looked at gun makers starting with an "M" but have not found it yet. The gun barrel inside measures about .75"(sorry I don't own any calipers to measure) so maybe it's a .71 caliber? Maybe took a paper cartridge? Yes I'm guessing.

Any help appreciated

Finstro1

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Thanks . From your reply I did more looking and it sure looks like a French M1853/67 Infantry Rifle. I wonder how the heck my ancestor ended up with it is beyond me but my information said it came back from the Civil War with them. One of your experts says no way it was in the CW. I figure he probably knows.

 

[Kurtlg]

Thanks . From your reply I did more looking and it sure looks like a French M1853/67 Infantry Rifle. I wonder how the heck my ancestor ended up with it is beyond me but my information said it came back from the Civil War with them. One of your experts says no way it was in the CW. I figure he probably knows.

Quite possibly your ancestor was a Civil War veteran who obtained the rifle postwar. When he died a family member may have assumed it was what he carried in the war. It is disappointing but this type of thing is common. Always be skeptical when some one says " according to family history ....".

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[johan_steele]

Okay thank you at least I know more than I did. Any idea whom manufactured them and what year and what the markings stand for? Like the "M" that appears to be stamped into the side plate?

It's likely Liege made but I'm uncertain without digging out the book with proof marks. A lot of these were converted in Liege but some in France as well.

Liege would also end up with French made arms and convert them. Anything to make coin. Without holding it in my hand I'm doing some edumacated guessing.

Your ancestor likely picked this up at his local hardware dry goods store. They weren't too expensive by the time they hit the US market which was well after the ACW.

 

[scooter748driver]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.

 

[Story]

I wonder how the heck my ancestor ended up with it is beyond me but my information said it came back from the Civil War with them.

To double-down on @johan_steele 's observation, Tabatiere Breech-Loaders were converted to smoothbore as inexpensive game getting weapons. Someone in your family line used it to put meat on the table back in the day, so it's still good familial history.

Your ancestor likely picked this up at his local hardware dry goods store. They weren't too expensive by the time they hit the US market which was well after the ACW.

If you know who your ancestor was and what unit he was in, folks here could tell you what sort of weapon he was issued.

If you do not know what unit your ancestor was in, folks in the Ancestry part of CWT could probably tell you.

 

[bayonet]

To double-down on @johan_steele 's observation, Tabatiere Breech-Loaders were converted to smoothbore as inexpensive game getting weapons. Someone in your family line used it to put meat on the table back in the day, so it's still good familial history.


If you know who your ancestor was and what unit he was in, folks here could tell you what sort of weapon he was issued.

If you do not know what unit your ancestor was in, folks in the Ancestry part of CWT could probably tell you.

Good advice as I did the same. Just do your research and discover the regiment they served in and digging further will tell you what weapons they carried. Collected all the different weapons my 2 GG Grandfathers would of carried and the 1 I traced to the Rev War. All except 1 a Henry Rifle, don't have 25-50K to spend on one but I keep playing Lotto (was off by 7#s once sadly)!

 

[Story]

All except 1 a Henry Rifle, don't have 25-50K to spend on one but I keep playing Lotto (was off by 7#s once sadly)!

Far be it for me to be the Devil's Advocate and leave a trail of fresh breadcrumbs to an affordable and shootable reproduction.

1860 Henry - Repeating Rifles - Rifles - PRODUCTS

www.cimarron-firearms.com

Pro-tip; haunt the CAS-L, SASS and N-SSA forums for used examples.

XOXO​

Captain Obvious
Good Idea Fairy
(Ret'd)​

 

[bayonet]

Far be it for me to be the Devil's Advocate and leave a trail of fresh breadcrumbs to an affordable and shootable reproduction.

1860 Henry - Repeating Rifles - Rifles - PRODUCTS

www.cimarron-firearms.com

Pro-tip; haunt the CAS-L, SASS and N-SSA forums for used examples.

XOXO​

Captain Obvious
Good Idea Fairy
(Ret'd)​

What a Reproduction you say!!! Never that's sacrilegious!!! NEVER

 

[Old Soldier]

Looks like a French Snider rifle.

The French name was the "tabatière " - the tobacco pouch. It is Mlle 1853/4 rifle with their version of a Snider action - no copyright payouts - and so converted into the Mlle 1867. If it has a squared thumb lever it is a type 1, if half-round, a type 2 and if it has a locking lever - like the Snider MkIII - it is a type 3! This one is a Liege conversion and Belgian proofed. It MAY have the original manufacturer source marked on the lockplate and SHOULD have the French butt roundel and insert.

A good source:

French M1853/67 Infantry rifles “à Tabatière”

Between 1867 and 1870, the Tabatières were produced under the direct auspices of the French Imperial government including French military inspectors. Also during this time, France had managed to fully re-arm the front line troops of its armies with Chassepôts, of which some 1.03 million were...

www.militaryrifles.com