Hancock Commands the Cavalry

[Hoplite]

Wittenberg's Union Cavalry Comes of Age- I did not know this, never heard of this tidbit.

After Chancellorsville Hooker cashiered Stoneman as cavalry commander. As he also did not particularly want Pleasanton either, he reached out and offered the command to Hancock, who was reluctant. Buford and Grimes Davis however persuaded Hancock to take the job and he reluctantly accepted.
However before he could assume command, Couch resigned as commander of II Corps, and Hancock as senior divisional commander took over the corps.

To me it opens up endless and fascinating possibilities for the Gettysburg campaign if this would have taken place.

 

[JeffFromSyracuse]

Pleasanton was essentially relegated to staff officer during the campaign. Would Hancock have been more aggressive pursuing Stuart (or keeping Stuart away from the AoP) in late June? Would he have offered a firmer hand in covering the army's flanks starting on July 2? Would the cavalry have been better organized to be a useful pursuit/counter-thrust arm after the battle?

It's an interesting thought exercise, but I think Hancock's presence with the infantry from 4pm on July 1 to 3pm on July 3 was far more impactful and decisive than if he had been on the periphery with the cavalry.

 

[Stryker65]

Perhaps Hancock would've been an aggressive Grant-like type, and hunted down Stuart's division until they were destroyed.

 

[gettysburgerrn]

Had he taken the cavalry, to whom would the Second Corps gone to?

Ken

 

[rpkennedy]

Had he taken the cavalry, to whom would the Second Corps gone to?

Ken

The senior officer was John Caldwell but Meade ordered John Gibbon to take command several times during the campaign. That said, I would have to imagine that a senior major general in the army would have gotten tapped for the command if Hancock didn't take over for Couch (Doubleday or Birney would be my guess, assuming someone from outside the army wasn't ordered to do so).

Ryan

 

[Hoplite]

Had he taken the cavalry, to whom would the Second Corps gone to?

Ken

If during Meade's tenure as command of AOP, it would never have been Doubleday or Birney, he had grudges/issues with both of them.
Remember Lincoln gave him pretty much carte blanche as far as making changes in command went.
He was a seniority guy for sure, and he did make some questionable choices- Newton for I Corps and then French for III Corps

 

[infomanpa]

Interesting. I've never heard this account. Thanks.

 

[rpkennedy]

If during Meade's tenure as command of AOP, it would never have been Doubleday or Birney, he had grudges/issues with both of them.
Remember Lincoln gave him pretty much carte blanche as far as making changes in command went.
He was a seniority guy for sure, and he did make some questionable choices- Newton for I Corps and then French for III Corps

It would have been when Hooker was still in command. Hooker doesn't seem to have had any issues with either Doubleday or Birney.

Ryan

 

[121st PA Vols]

It would have been when Hooker was still in command. Hooker doesn't seem to have had any issues with either Doubleday or Birney.

Ryan

That's always been one of the disappointing outcomes of the first day (to me) that Doubleday didn't get his just dues and for it to happen because of a remark by Howard of all people! How in the hell was the 1st any better with Newton!?

 

[rpkennedy]

That's always been one of the disappointing outcomes of the first day (to me) that Doubleday didn't get his just dues and for it to happen because of a remark by Howard of all people! How in the hell was the 1st any better with Newton!?

In fairness, there was a lot of antipathy between Meade and Doubleday that predated the Gettysburg Campaign. Howard's report just gave Meade the excuse to keep the First Corps out of Doubleday's hands. It is ironic that Doubleday is relieved after arguably his best performance of the war and, by rights, probably should have retained command.

Ryan

 

[121st PA Vols]

In fairness, there was a lot of antipathy between Meade and Doubleday that predated the Gettysburg Campaign. Howard's report just gave Meade the excuse to keep the First Corps out of Doubleday's hands. It is ironic that Doubleday is relieved after arguably his best performance of the war and, by rights, probably should have retained command.

Ryan

Oh I get it. Just too bad for Doubleday. Meade was a tough hombre to deal with on a good day and evidently had a thing for Doubleday. Newton, (DD's WP classmate) left the AOP within a year (?) then sent either west or Florida. I haven't researched particulars.
One of my first readings back in the day after Tucker's High Tide was Coddington who covered this in some detail, the Gburg part of it.
The first day was hard on the command structure at Gettysburg with the suddenness of it, especially at the higher levels (any level of course). When you walk the fields imagining the chaos, hard as that is, then imagine being in control of it all in your sector, people coming to you for instruction and you trying to get a feel....pretty damned quickly....of the overall, you marvel how they made sense of any of it.

 

[Stryker65]

Oh I get it. Just too bad for Doubleday. Meade was a tough hombre to deal with on a good day and evidently had a thing for Doubleday. Newton, (DD's WP classmate) left the AOP within a year (?) then sent either west or Florida. I haven't researched particulars.
One of my first readings back in the day after Tucker's High Tide was Coddington who covered this in some detail, the Gburg part of it.
The first day was hard on the command structure at Gettysburg with the suddenness of it, especially at the higher levels (any level of course). When you walk the fields imagining the chaos, hard as that is, then imagine being in control of it all in your sector, people coming to you for instruction and you trying to get a feel....pretty damned quickly....of the overall, you marvel how they made sense of any of it.

Newton became a division commander (under Howard, ironically) during the Atlanta Campaign, and then was transferred to Florida when his M-G was not confirmed again by the Senate.

 

[121st PA Vols]

Newton became a division commander (under Howard, ironically) during the Atlanta Campaign, and then was transferred to Florida when his M-G was not confirmed again by the Senate.

Thank you Stryker65. Some irony indeed serving under Howard where I see he had the 1st div of the 4th corps. I've noticed more and more over the years the usage of Roman Numerals, Howard's IV instead of 4th Corps. Weird trying to modernize it.
Back to the point. I should look into Newton more having forgotten he was a Virginian. Probably an interesting story there.

 

[Stryker65]

I've noticed more and more over the years the usage of Roman Numerals, Howard's IV instead of 4th Corps. Weird trying to modernize it.

Might be trying to differentiate from WWI/WWII corps structure? IDK