Had all things been equal

[Sandlapper56]

I'm sure this has been beat to death , but had all things been equal. Manpower , supplys do you think the outcome would have been different.

 

[cash]

Welcome to the forum. All things are never equal. No sense crying about it now.

 

[101combatvet]

I'm sure this has been beat to death , but had all things been equal. Manpower , supplys do you think the outcome would have been different.

Probably the outcome would have been a draw. Right?

 

[28thNewYork]

Greetings and welcome from Atlanta.

 

[Elennsar]

Had all things been equal, the war would never have happened, because the attempts to deal with the slave states being outweighed by the free states in population would not have been desired and with that the decisions that lead to the decision to go to war when things didn't go their way would never have happened.

But assuming all material things are set as even and the war happens anyway? If Nashville and New Orleans are still in the same state of defense as OTL, I think the road to OTL's outcome is still open.

 

[jgoodguy]

Before we start down this path, we need to know why the South would have so high of population. The free labor ideology of the North attracted many immigrants which over time gave the North a population/manpower advantage. The slave labor ideology of the South discouraged immigration and encourage migration of whites to the North.

So how come the manpower is equal. That will affect if the Civil War happened at all.

 

[jgoodguy]

Had all things been equal, the war would never have happened, because the attempts to deal with the slave states being outweighed by the free states in population would not have been desired and with that the decisions that lead to the decision to go to war when things didn't go their way would never have happened.

But assuming all material things are set as even and the war happens anyway? If Nashville and New Orleans are still in the same state of defense as OTL, I think the road to OTL's outcome is still open.

If populations were equal, then representation in government would be equal. However the advantage is to the South due to the the 3/5 rule counting slaves for representation. No reason for secession.

 

[godofredus]

Had all things been equal, the war would never have happened, because the attempts to deal with the slave states being outweighed by the free states in population would not have been desired and with that the decisions that lead to the decision to go to war when things didn't go their way would never have happened.

Elennsar has hit the nail squarely. The only benefit of a "what if" question is not to build a fantasy but to see what would have changed. The reason why the South seceded is that the free states outweighed the slave states and the paranoia of the slavoracy meant that eventually the free states would eliminate the slave states.

So if all things had been equal the free states would not have had the population advantage over the slave states.

The other way to look at it is what if the slavocracy - Jeff Davis and his ilk - had been sane and believed Lincoln when he said he would not interfere with the status of slavery in the slave states. Instead they accused Lincoln of being a John Brown.

 

[jgoodguy]

I know this makes what is unfun, but you have to step back to when the populations diverged and step forward accounting year by year for the change until you get to 1860 and see what is what. Even the question has subtleties. For example due to the slave labor of the South, does equal manpower include the slaves or not. If not, assuming a Civil War, the South will likely win. If including the slaves, due to the manufacturing capability of the North, the North is favored. But the what ifs are still challenging, does the South have Lee in command or Johnston. Does the manpower divide the South between unionists and secessionists. There are many many moree.

 

[damYankee]

Before we start down this path, we need to know why the South would have so high of population. The free labor ideology of the North attracted many immigrants which over time gave the North a population/manpower advantage. The slave labor ideology of the South discouraged immigration and encourage migration of whites to the North.

So how come the manpower is equal. That will affect if the Civil War happened at all.

What "Free Labor" of the North are you referring to? As I understand it, workers in the North were compensated for labor.

 

[rbasin]

All things being equal, there would have been no war.

 

[Elennsar]

What "Free Labor" of the North are you referring to? As I understand it, workers in the North were compensated for labor.

Freemen as opposed to slaves ("unfree labor").

 

[mphstteach]

Impossible question to answer that has already been beat to death, Welcome though! lol

 

[ole]

Elennsar has hit the nail squarely. The only benefit of a "what if" question is not to build a fantasy but to see what would have changed. The reason why the South seceded is that the free states outweighed the slave states and the paranoia of the slavoracy meant that eventually the free states would eliminate the slave states.

So if all things had been equal the free states would not have had the population advantage over the slave states.

The other way to look at it is what if the slavocracy - Jeff Davis and his ilk - had been sane and believed Lincoln when he said he would not interfere with the status of slavery in the slave states. Instead they accused Lincoln of being a John Brown.

Bingo again!

Representation was very much sought after and Bloody Kansas kicked that sucker off.

Now we can ask why superior representation was such a big deal. Oooops. Now we come back to the fear of losing slavery.

 

[jgoodguy]

What "Free Labor" of the North are you referring to? As I understand it, workers in the North were compensated for labor.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yH6gOFTfZwd3RBg&bvm=bv.73612305,d.cWc&cad=rja
Lincoln, Labor and Liberation

The free labor ideology of the nineteenth century was grounded in the beliefs that Northern free labor was superior to Southern slave labor. The key factor that made this system unique was "the opportunity it offers wage earners to rise to property-owning independence." [1] It was this free labor ideology and not the republicanism of the Revolutionary War era that caused slavery to be problematic by the time of the Civil War. This ideology was comprehensive—it had economic, social, moral, and political aspects. All facets of the theory need to be explored in order to fully understand how and why slavery became such an important issue.

 

[damYankee]

Lincoln, Labor and Liberation

People worked for wages, they did not work for free.

 

[The Bonnie Blue]

The better question would be had they had known how things were going to turn out 150 years later who would they have used to fight for the north?