Greek Fire

Joined
Nov 26, 2014
An incendiary device, constructed of combustible chemicals that was used by Confederate soldiers to burn down buildings. (Not always effective as in the St. Alban's Raid in Vermont.)
 
Someone's going to come along and set us straight on this, but, Greek Fire dates to the Ottoman's of the 14th or 15th century. It's not a "Confederate" invention, by any means.
 
BTW, the Confederate Army was only briefly in the North. Responsible historians recognize they were pretty well behaved, as these things go. The Union Army in the South, not so much.

If we're going to evaluate who burned what, it's going to be a long evening.
 
BTW, the Confederate Army was only briefly in the North. Responsible historians recognize they were pretty well behaved, as these things go. The Union Army in the South, not so much.

If we're going to evaluate who burned what, it's going to be a long evening.

The Confederacy did depredate property and towns in every incursion it conducted into the Union and the fact that more pillage was not committed by Confederate forces and agents was not due to to any moral superiority of its leaders or personnel but rather the lack of opportunity or in some instances, the failure to carry out their pyrogenic assignments. And let's not forget their bio-warfare plots and attempts.
 
The Confederacy did depredate property and towns in every incursion it conducted into the Union and the fact that more pillage was not committed by Confederate forces and agents was not due to to any moral superiority of its leaders or personnel but rather the lack of opportunity or in some instances, the failure to carry out their pyrogenic assignments. And let's not forget their bio-warfare plots and attempts.

Let's put this in more simple language. The Army of Northern Virginia behaved itself, on General Lee's orders, during its Northern incursions. Both of them.

There were no "pyrogenic assignments" and I would like to see some sources on the "bio-warfare plot and attempts" you're speaking of. Like I said, this may turn out to be a long evening.
 
The originators of Greek Fire chemical liquids were the Byzantine Empire around 672. Confederate soldiers used liquid Greek Fire in bottle weapons to set fire to hotels in NYC in November 1864. Union forces developed a solidified form of Greek Fire which was used during the battles of Vicksburg and Charleston, NC to set fires. It appears to be partially accurate and unpredictable in both forms for the soldiers. The solidified form was delivered to targets using rockets.
 
Confederate soldiers used liquid Greek Fire in bottle weapons to set fire to hotels in NYC in November 1864.

I'm sorry to be snarky, but I've read in the papers that cannabis has been legalized in a lot of places. Where on earth are you getting this information? Confederate soldiers were burning hotels in New York City in 1864?

Wow. That's really a new one on me.
 
I'm sorry to be snarky, but I've read in the papers that cannabis has been legalized in a lot of places. Where on earth are you getting this information? Confederate soldiers were burning hotels in New York City in 1864?

Wow. That's really a new one on me.

Change "soldiers" to "agents" and it is true. This is probably as good a description of the events as any from the New York Times from back then...
 
I'm sorry to be snarky, but I've read in the papers that cannabis has been legalized in a lot of places. Where on earth are you getting this information? Confederate soldiers were burning hotels in New York City in 1864?

Wow. That's really a new one on me.
Yes, Drew. confederate agents were sent into NYC to set off incendiary devices. They did set at least one hotel on fire that I understand damaged PT Barnum's museum. They did call the material they were issued Greek Fire but whatever it was it was not the same formula used by the seventh century AD Byzantines as their formula was a state secret (though probably based on naphtha) and has only been imitated, never duplicated. If I remember correctly what the Confederates were issued was some kind of binary device that would only cook off when blended.
 
Change "soldiers" to "agents" and it is true. This is probably as good a description of the events as any from the New York Times from back then...

This is a very long article and I thank you for it. But I'll need to read and consider it. I generally don't trust period newspapers any longer than I can you-know-what in a straight line. We'll see how this one works out.
 
Let's put this in more simple language. The Army of Northern Virginia behaved itself, on General Lee's orders, during its Northern incursions. Both of them.

You're kidding, right? The burning and attempted burning of houses and towns by the ANV regardless of Lee's orders are well documented and are discussed in most books that deal with the two Pennsylvania incursions.

There were no "pyrogenic assignments" and I would like to see some sources on the "bio-warfare plot and attempts" you're speaking of. Like I said, this may turn out to be a long evening.

St. Albans raid, Vermont, October 19, 1864. Confederate Lt. Bennett Young, commander of the raid ordered the town of St Albans destroyed with Greek fire as his group exited the town. All containers save one of the Greek fire failed to ignite resulting in the burning of only a single small building.

Plot to burn New York City:

Major-General DIX,
Headquarters Department of the East, New York:

SIR: I have the honor to report that last night, about half after 10 o'clock, I visited Kennedy, taking with me Mr. Howard, of the New York Times. After some conversation relative to the matter for which he has been sentenced, he made the following confession. He requested that I would make no use of his confession to his detriment, in case a respite or reprieve should be received.
I have the honor to remain, respectfully, your obedient servant,

MARTIN BURKE,
Lieutenant-Colonel, Commanding.
Confession of Robert C. Kennedy.
After my escape from Jonson's Island I went to Canada, where I met a number of Confederates. They asked me if I was willing to go on an expedition. I replied, "Yes; if it is in the service of my country." They said, "It's all right", but gave no intimation of its nature, nor did I ask for any. I was then sent to New York, where I staid some time. They were eight men in our party, of whom two fled to Canada. After we had been in New York three weeks we were told that the object of the expedition was to retaliate on the North for the atrocities in the Shenandoah Valley. It was designed to set fire to the city on the night of the Presidential election, but the phosphorus was not ready and it was put off until the 25th of November. I was stopping at the Belmont House, but moved into Prince street. I set fire to four places-Barnum's Museum, Lovejoy's Hotel, Tammany Hotel, and the New England House. The others only started fires in the house where each was lodging and then ran off. Had they all done as I did we would have had thirty-two fires and played a huge joke on the fire department. I know that I am to be hung for setting fire to Barnum's Museum, but that was only a joke. I had no idea of doing it. I had been drinking and went it there with a friend, and, just to scare the people, I emptied a bottle of phosphorus on the floor. We knew it wouldn't set fire to the wood, for we had tried it before, and at one time concluded to give the whole thing up.

There was no fiendishness about it. After setting fire to my four places I walked the streets all night and went to the Exchange Hotel early in the morning. We all met there that morning and the next night. My friend and I had rooms there, but was sat in the office nearly all the time reading the papers, while we were watched by the detectives of whom hotel was full. I expected to die then, and if I had it would have been all right; but now it seems rather hard. I escaped to Canada, and was glad enough when I crossed the bridge in safety.

I desired, however, to return to my command, and started with my friend for the Confederacy via Detroit. Just before entering the city he received an intimation that the detectives were on the lookout for us, and giving me signal, he jumped from the cars. I didn't notice the signal, but kept on and arrested in the depot.

I wish to say that killing women and children was the last thing thought of. We wanted to let the people of the North understand that there are two sides to this war, and that they can't be rolling in wealth and comfort while we at the South are bearing all the hardships and privations.

In retaliation for Sheridan's atrocities in the Shenandoah Valley we desired to destroy property, not the lives of women and children, although that would of course have followed in its train.

Done in the presence of Lieutenant Colonel Martin Burke.
O.R. Ser. II, Vol. VIII, pt. I, pp. 428-429


Confederate Bio-warfare: Dr. Blackburn and the Yellow Fever Plot
 
I was stopping at the Belmont House, but moved into Prince street. I set fire to four places-Barnum's Museum, Lovejoy's Hotel, Tammany Hotel, and the New England House. The others only started fires in the house where each was lodging and then ran off.

And you really believe this? Good grief. A "confession" proffered by a prisoner and taken by an honorable Union officer becomes history. Great news, thanks.
 
The Union used incendiary artillery rounds against Charleston in order to cause fires within the city.
 
For Heaven's sake, Nathaniel Banks burnt Louisiana's Red River Valley to the ground, in ignominious retreat.

None of these Union guys were saints.
 
The originators of Greek Fire chemical liquids were the Byzantine Empire around 672....

This is a 'good'un'...

It's probably even older than that...but really, it's just become a term....because nowadays, nobody knows what the heck it was...and it's been that way for centuries / eons.

So,...it's the term 'Greek Fire' that has persisted...The Romans used it because whatever it was, it would still burn under water...there are anecdotes of the fireballs being observed as they plummeted to the depths of the ocean (I'm guessing some phosphorus may have been involved...but then again, my guess is as good as anyone else's)....Because of this, it made a good naval weapon....toss a fireball (that can't be extinguished) onto your opponents deck and watch the fun begin.
 
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