Tell me more! Gettysburg Gatlings?

[bayonet]

You can spread the term American as far as you like, as far as including all those who live in the American continents. It still remains that a common use of the word, especially among citizens of the United States, refers to citizens of or those who have loyalty to the United States. Which the rebels most certainly were trying not to be, right?

Why what a great idea you have to "spread the term American as far as you like". I'll drink to that Everyones an American now, all right!!! Now since you have raised the issue my fellow Irishmen is it fair to say all those living in Northern Ireland that do not want the whole Island of Ireland united as one, can we still call them Irishmen?

 

[Irishtom29]

Now since you have raised the issue my fellow Irishmen is it fair to say all those living in Northern Ireland that do not want the whole Island of Ireland united as one, can we still call them Irishmen?

I don't know; political definitions can differ from geographical ones. How do the Irish use the term? To refer to those who are citizens of or loyal to the Republic? To those in Northern Ireland who identify as Irish rather than British? To all who live on the island? Do the Unionists in Northern Ireland refer to themselves as Irish?

 

[bayonet]

I don't know; political definitions can differ from geographical ones. How do the Irish use the term? To refer to those who are citizens of or loyal to the Republic? To those in Northern Ireland who identify as Irish rather than British? To all who live on the island? Do the Unionists in Northern Ireland refer to themselves as Irish?

So cannot those "Rebels" still consider themselves "Americans" if they choose to? Can the "Rebels" still and if they want to "identify" as "Americans"?

 

[Irishtom29]

So cannot those "Rebels" still consider themselves "Americans" if they choose to? Can the "Rebels" still and if they want to "identify" as "Americans"?

They can't do anything, they're dead.

 

[JerryD]

So cannot those "Rebels" still consider themselves "Americans" if they choose to? Can the "Rebels" still and if they want to "identify" as "Americans"?

Whether you like it or not, the term "Americans" is synonymous with citizens of the United States. Would you call citizens of Canada or Mexico Americans? I suspect not. So if the CSA had decided to adopt that term for themselves (which they could have, of course), it would have been rather confusing. And from what I have read, they did choose something else. They chose Confederates. So using the terms actually used, I think any Confederate would have told you they were not an American, they were a Confederate.

 

[Dan Kohli]

I think this thread should stick to wether or not there were Gatling guns at Gettysburg. The debate on the identification/self-identification should be taken to other parts of this forum.

 

[bayonet]

I think this thread should stick to wether or not there were Gatling guns at Gettysburg. The debate on the identification/self-identification should be taken to other parts of this forum.

Well that ends that since we know 101% there were no Gatling guns at Gettysburg. So a sorrowful sweet ending to this thread

 

[Package4]

You can spread the term American as far as you like, as far as including all those who live in the American continents. It still remains that a common use of the word, especially among citizens of the United States, refers to citizens of or those who have loyalty to the United States. Which the rebels most certainly were trying not to be, right?

So indigenous people would be considered??? I think if you went by Merriam-Webster's definition, American is described as a native or inhabitant. Present day's prism would be a US citizen, but there was much more pride in a state citizenship than a National on both sides, during the 1850s and 60s. Many regions of the fledgling US talked about leaving, from NE to Western states/territories. Many historians have said that it took the ACW to truly define the US as a nation.

 

[Irishtom29]

So indigenous people would be considered??? I think if you went by Merriam-Webster's definition, American is described as a native or inhabitant. Present day's prism would be a US citizen, but there was much more pride in a state citizenship than a National on both sides, during the 1850s and 60s. Many regions of the fledgling US talked about leaving, from NE to Western states/territories. Many historians have said that it took the ACW to truly define the US as a nation.

Would Indians be considered what? Citizens? They weren't. And Indians often referred to the people of the United States as the Americans, just as they called the British...the British and the French the French and so on.

Obviously there are many uses of the word American but it has a political meaning and that's what I'm getting at, and at the rebels were attempting to no longer be Americans in the political sense. What they would've been called had their rebellion succeeded I've no idea.

As for state identification over national, well the results of the rebellion show plenty of people put national identity first.

 

[Daily Bread]

Welcome to CWT !

Butler's private purchase and use of these new weapons at James River seems to have the most documentation.
No matter his historic reputation, Butler was extremely wealthy. So I've aways thought it was plausible.

But used at Gettysburg ?

I don't think so.

You're probably correct . Journalist then were no different from today's and were likely to "embellish " to gain readers .

 

[History hoarder63]

I know Gatlings weren't "officially" accepted by the army until after the Civil War, but some Union commanders personally purchased a few for use in the Petersburg siege and on gunboats. AFAIK, that was the only use during the war. But I recently read a post (not on this forum) claiming they were used against Pickett's charge. Anybody know if that's true?

A different multi shot carriage mounted gun (Billinghurst Requia Battery Gun) was used at Port Hudson in June 1863 and later at Fort Wagner, Cold Harbor and Petersburg.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Gen Butler (US) is the earliest rumored use of having the Gatling during the James River campaign May 4th 1864

Here are a couple of older threads you may enjoy:

Officers Bought There Own Guns | Cannons / Artillery & Crew Served Weapons

The Gatling Gun in the Civil War 19 Perhaps, if Union officials had spent more time investigating the invention rather than the inventor, they would have realized the enormous potential of this innovative new gun. Not all Union officials were blind to the value of this new gun. After seeing...

civilwartalk.com

Petersburg/Richmond - Gatling Guns | Eastern Theater

photo by @FarawayFriend from thread https://civilwartalk.com/threads/foto-friday.153456/post-1964224 I just read that Butler had half a dozen (or a dozen?) Gatling Guns at Petersburg. Is that true? If it is true, did it make a difference or was it a technology a bit ahead of its time?

civilwartalk.com

 

[Dan Kohli]

Ager repeating guns were actually issued by the federal government if I remember correctly, but I don't know if these were at Gettysburg. It would be cool to get one's hands on a reproduction.

 

[Daily Bread]

Ager repeating guns were actually issued by the federal government if I remember correctly, but I don't know if these were at Gettysburg. It would be cool to get one's hands on a reproduction.

Thank you for that

 

[Package4]

Ager repeating guns were actually issued by the federal government if I remember correctly, but I don't know if these were at Gettysburg. It would be cool to get one's hands on a reproduction.

The last recorded use was during Seven Pines, Butler ordered two for $1300 as did Fremont and Lincoln when they were demonstrated to him ordered all 10 available. McClellan ordered 50, but if I recall correctly the order was cancelled due to overheating, misfiring, range issues and the expense of the required tubes.

There was a thread on these some time ago and if I recall correctly Ripley cancelled McClellan's order, I'll have to find my contracts book along with my Ripley tome. Home office is a wreck right now. I believe that to be the 96th PA with one on the right, in 1862.

 

[Daily Bread]

The last recorded use was during Seven Pines, Butler ordered two for $1300 as did Fremont and Lincoln when they were demonstrated to him ordered all 10 available. McClellan ordered 50, but if I recall correctly the order was cancelled due to overheating, misfiring, range issues and the expense of the required tubes.

There was a thread on these some time ago and if I recall correctly Ripley cancelled McClellan's order, I'll have to find my contracts book along with my Ripley tome. Home office is a wreck right now. I believe that to be the 96th PA with one on the right, in 1862.

View attachment 432517

This probably explains the rumors of Butlers " Gatling gun " . Thank you