George H. Thomas joins CSA

[rbasin]

When Thomas met Hood after the war in I believe Louisville, Hood was impressed. Said Thomas should have stayed with the south, where he would have been appreciated and loved.

Reading about Thomas for the past year or so, there were a lot of comparisons to George Washington.

If Lee had Thomas, I think you would have seen the 3 Corps version of the ANV sooner.

 

[rbasin]

Imagine that: an army commander by Lee with Thomas, Jackson, and Longstreet as corps commanders.

 

[Bonnie Prince Charlie]

Imagine that: an army commander by Lee with Thomas, Jackson, and Longstreet as corps commanders.

I think if Thomas went south this almost certainly would have occured.

 

[rbasin]

I think if Thomas went south this almost certainly would have occured.

There was no combination from the north to counteract this. Imagine having Jackson and Thomas attacking your flanks, while Longstreet held the center.

 

[OldReliable1862]

Determining what commands Thomas would have held in CS service requires pure speculation. I don't consider it impossible he would fill the role occupied IOTL by Philip St. George Cocke, commanding the Potomac Line and later Beauregard's 5th Brigade.

With William Mahone as a patron, I could see Thomas taking command of the Department of Norfolk. While defeat at Roanoke Island may be prevented (as mentioned previously), I don't think Norfolk can be held indefinitely without McClellan choosing a different landing spot. A better performance around Norfolk may lead to McClellan choosing the Fort Monroe option on his own.

How a more effective commander in Huger's place would affect the battles around Richmond, I can't quite say, so I humbly defer to @Saphroneth here.

 

[OldReliable1862]

I just remembered something interesting: if Burnside's Expedition is turned back at Roanoke Island, where will they be sent next?

The logical answer would seem to be to the Peninsula with McClellan's army. If I remember correctly, he had wanted them to take part in the campaign. How does this affect events on the Peninsula and around Norfolk, @Saphroneth and @67th Tigers?

 

[67th Tigers]

McClellan wanted Burnside to advance inland and seize Goldsboro. Even when asked as the Seven Days started, he confirmed Goldsboro.

 

[Spirt of 1861 Copperhead]

(I was granted permission by the author to continue this discussion ) the only way I see George h Thomas possibly fighting against Union troops was if he only accepted the state, not the Confederate commission and if Kentucky, Virginia had separated and join the confederacy in New York City, had separated from the union, or at least attempted to. Perhaps, when Lincoln start of the emancipation proclamation, he later turn this word into Freeing slaves and provided. How do you the opportunity to honorably the fact I think it would be possible.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Imagine this scene: Bernard Bee is in despair at First Bull Run. He looks to Henry Hill and sees it strongly held.

"There stands Thomas, steady as a rock! Rally around the Virginians!"

The legend of George Thomas, The Rock of Manassas, is born.

 

[Joseph A. Rose]

Imagine this scene: Bernard Bee is in despair at First Bull Run. He looks to Henry Hill and sees it strongly held.

"There stands Thomas, steady as a rock! Rally around the Virginians!"

The legend of George Thomas, The Rock of Manassas, is born.

I think that you're confusing him with "Rockwall" Thomas.

 

[Irishtom29]

It might have provoked an intervention by the Kyrellian Armada observing from the Rings of Saturn.

 

[Spirt of 1861 Copperhead]

I meant in a sncario where gerge h Thomas sides with the south he decides to switch to the union once Lincolns' issued his emancipation proclamation and with kentucky,new york state under the union flag

 

[Luke Freet]

I meant in a sncario where gerge h Thomas sides with the south he decides to switch to the union once Lincolns' issued his emancipation proclamation and with kentucky,new york state under the union flag

I doubt he would. I don't recall a single Confederate general who turned sides after the EP. Partly due to their own ties with theinsitution, but also because doing so would make them "turn coats", the Benedict Arnold's of the Confederacy.
It's one thing for Thomas to side with the Union from the start. But if in this hypothetical scenario where he goes South, yeah no, that ain't happening.

 

[jackt62]

I meant in a sncario where gerge h Thomas sides with the south he decides to switch to the union once Lincolns' issued his emancipation proclamation and with kentucky,new york state under the union flag

Southern born officers such as Thomas who remained loyal to the United States were never going to "switch" sides at will, regardless of the EP or any other reason. (Similarly, the same can be said for northern born officers who cast their lot with the south; e.g., Lovell, Pemberton). Thomas's decision to remain with the Union was based on deep seated ties and loyalty to the flag. That devotion cost him a breakup with his own family.

 

[rbasin]

As the war continued, more and more Thomas pushed towards the radical republicans as it comes to slavery.

 

[Spirt of 1861 Copperhead]

How would George H Thomas switch to the Confederate cause? He had such anti-slavery viewpoints and his wife was from upstate new york into the republican party.

 

[OldReliable1862]

I don't believe Thomas would defect during the war for any reason. Instead, this scenario assumes Thomas never meets his wife, remaining a bachelor officer, and associating more closely with his fellow Southern officers.

 

[Spirt of 1861 Copperhead]

It would be interesting, though realism is a little bit more difficult if the rock of Chickamauga at first sided with his home state because the Confederates didn't attack for Sumter. Perhaps Kentucky's neutrality was already violated. Another factor is if somehow, the Union did not order was not able to take effective measures against slavery, such as the No Contraband, act of 1861 and until fairly recently when the upper South joined the confederacy previously Lincoln, allowed the enforcement of the fugitive slave law, in all US territories, including the upper south, and the public saw his administration enforce that law.

Perhaps George H Thomas would serve his home state in the beginning, at least, but maybe win the war is clearly about slavery. He might change his mind

 

[OldReliable1862]

Thomas would have been above Longstreet in terms of seniority, and hence if he was in the ANV would have become the GOC of 1st Corps.

He would have been made a Lt Col in the regular ACSA, and might have been selected as the Colonel of the 1st CS Cavalry in May instead of Sibley. Either way, he would be senior to Garnett (dept of NW Va) and might have been assigned there vice Garnett. This would lead to Thomas commanding in the Shenandoah...

Circling back to this idea, I find the idea of Thomas commanding the Department of the Northwest instead of Robert S. Garnett quite interesting. Things become even more interesting if Thomas manages to blunt McClellan and Rosecrans' attack at Rich Mountain in July 1861. Could this perhaps delay McClellan's rise to the top? He's already a Major General of Regulars, of course, so he'll get something important to do, but his rise may be slowed.

 

[SWS]

I once toyed with the idea of Bob Garnett avoiding defeat at Rich Mountain. It actually seems an underrated 'point of divergence' to me, as it means McClellan doesn't get the AotP, and instead remains out in Western Virginia and Kentucky for the time being, once the latter State's 'neutrality' is no longer a factor. But I don't really know who Lincoln can turn to after Manassas. I considered Frémont being recalled to Washington en route to St. Louis.