General Sumner

[Cavalier]

I have been a fan General Edwin Vose Sumner, commander of the Union second corps at Antietam, for some time. Sadly for me, it seems he is not generally well thought of by most historians. I know "lil Mac" wasn't to keen on him. A professional soldier all his life, he seems completely dedicated to following orders. An admirable trait for a soldier I would have thought, (what do I know, I was only a PFC, and a cook at that.)

Most it seems would fault him for the disaster that befell Sedgwick's division at Antietam. There appears to be some dissenters however.

Would any of the very knowledgeable posters here on CivilWarTalk care to post any opinions or observations on the old General?

Of course I am hoping his reputation can be repaired, (I have a soft spot in my heart for old soldiers), but any insights, pro or con, are most welcome.

Thanks to anyone who cares to comment. John

 

[jackt62]

Didn't Sumner help save the day at Seven Pines, when he sent his II Corps across the Chickahominy River to reinforce the 2 isolated Union corps that were under attack?

 

[Andy Cardinal]

I posted this awhile back:

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/edwin-vose-sumner.134558/#post-1541129

This is copied from the thread above. It's from Francis Walker's History of the Second Corps. I think it speaks to Sumner's good qualities:

"Much may be said on either side of the question whether, with his mental habits and his advanced age, he should have been designated for the command of twenty thousand new troops in the field, against a resolute and tenacious enemy skillfully and tenaciously led; but every voice must award praise, and only praise, to his transcendent soldierly virtues. Jupiter, shining full, clear, and strong in the midnight heavens, might be the disembodied soul of Edwin V. Sumner. In honor, in courage, in disinterestedness, in patriotism, in magnanimity, he shone resplendent. Meanness, falsehood, duplicity were more hateful than death to the simple-hearted soldier who had put himself, sword in hand, at the head of the divisions of Richardson and Sedgwick" (p. 11).

Further, Walker wrote,"If the Second Corps had a touch above the common; if in the terrible ordeals of flame and death, through which, in three years of almost continuous fighting, they were called to pass these two divisions showed a courage and tenacity that made them observed among the bravest; if they learned to drop their thousands upon the field as often as they were summoned to the conflict, but on no account to leave a color in the hands of the enemy, it was very largely through the inspiration derived from the gallant old chieftain who first organized them and led them into battle. It is easy to criticize Sumner's dispositions at Antietam -- the dangerous massing of Sedgwick's brigades, the exposure of the flank of the charging column, the failure of the commander to supervise and direct, from some central point, all the operations of the corps; yet no one who saw him there, hat in hand, his white hair streaming in the wind, riding abreast of the field officers of the foremost line, close up against the rocky ledges bursting with the deadly flame of Jackson's volleys, could ever fail to thereafter to understand the furious thrust with which a column of the Second Corps always struck the enemy, or the splendid intrepidity with which it's brigade and division commanders were wont to ride through the thickest of the fight as calmly as on parade" (pp. 12-13).

 

[Cavalier]

@jackt62 @Andy Cardinal Thanks for responding to me. Please excuse my ignorance and accept my apology. I should have done a search on Sumner before asking my question. I would like to believe I will conquer computers before they kill me but that doesn't appear to be the case at this point in time.

John

 

[Crazy Delawares]

He seemed to me to be a fighting general. That's the reason I've always held him in high regard.

 

[Pollaco]

Wasn't this the General known as Bull or Bull Head?

 

[Cavalier]

@Polloco I believe his nickname was "bull head" and/or "the bull of the woods". If I remember correctly a spent ball hit him on the head at some point in his long career, without causing any injury.

@Crazy Delawares He also seemed to me to be a fighting General and like you, I admire him for that.

Thanks for your comments, John

 

[Andy Cardinal]

He was known as Bull, Bull Head, or Bull in the woods -- supposedly since a musket ball bounced off his forehead in Mexico. "Bull in the woods" comes from his booming voice.

 

[Cavalier]

@Andy Cardinal I need to start making handwritten notes so I can reference these things. Thank you!

John

 

[Pollaco]

Bull in the Woods as pertained to Bull of the Woods? I've read where Longstreet was called the Bull of the Woods.

 

[Andy Cardinal]

Bull in the Woods as pertained to Bull of the Woods? I've read where Longstreet was called the Bull of the Woods.

Yes, I think Sumner was Bull in the Woods

 

[Belfoured]

I have been a fan General Edwin Vose Sumner, commander of the Union second corps at Antietam, for some time. Sadly for me, it seems he is not generally well thought of by most historians. I know "lil Mac" wasn't to keen on him. A professional soldier all his life, he seems completely dedicated to following orders. An admirable trait for a soldier I would have thought, (what do I know, I was only a PFC, and a cook at that.)

Most it seems would fault him for the disaster that befell Sedgwick's division at Antietam. There appears to be some dissenters however.

Would any of the very knowledgeable posters here on CivilWarTalk care to post any opinions or observations on the old General?

Of course I am hoping his reputation can be repaired, (I have a soft spot in my heart for old soldiers), but any insights, pro or con, are most welcome.

Thanks to anyone who cares to comment. John

You should get hold of Marion Armstrong's book Unfurl Those Colors (U Alabama 2008), about Sumner and the West Woods. He does a nice job of reassessing Sumner's performance at Antietam. I'm not sure I agree with all of it but he does make some fair points. The only modern bio I'm aware of is Thomas Tate's McFarland book. It's not bad.

 

[Cavalier]

@Belfoured Yes, I am going to try to get the Armstrong book. I had not heard of the Thomas Tate McFarland book before. Thank you very much for that. I will try to get that one too. My marriage should survive a couple more books more or less.

John

 

[rpkennedy]

@Belfoured Yes, I am going to try to get the Armstrong book. I had not heard of the Thomas Tate McFarland book before. Thank you very much for that. I will try to get that one too. My marriage should survive a couple more books more or less.

John

Those are famous last words, my friend.

Ryan

 

[Cavalier]

@rpkennedy You are of course correct! In cases like this discretion must be the better part of valor!

John

 

[Belfoured]

@Belfoured Yes, I am going to try to get the Armstrong book. I had not heard of the Thomas Tate McFarland book before. Thank you very much for that. I will try to get that one too. My marriage should survive a couple more books more or less.

John

The keys - a separate credit card account and a room at an undisclosed location. Tate's book lacks maps (it has one, IIRC) and is probably more thorough on Sumner's pre-War experiences but it's the modern biography. Bull apparently left no trove of papers and obviously had no chance to do a post-war memoir (even if he were so inclined), so the author was a bit hamstrung in doing a biography.

 

[Cavalier]

@Belfoured A separate credit card, a room with an undisclosed location, all very cloak and daggar!

After reading your comments above I have changed my mind. The Tate book is the one I think I will try to get first. Unfurl The Colors may have to wait for the aforementioned separate credit card and room with an undisclosed location.The General is an interesting character and I think his early life will be just what I am looking for.

All kidding aside, I appreciate your comments and those of all above who responded to me.

John

 

[Saint Jude]

You should get hold of Marion Armstrong's book Unfurl Those Colors (U Alabama 2008), about Sumner and the West Woods.

I agree!

 

[rbasin]

He was present at my G G Grandfather's trial for desertion in 1840. At ft Tampa.

 

[Cavalier]

@rbasin That is very interesting. How did your GG Grandfather make out in that, if you don't mind my asking?

@Saint Jude Thanks for the advice. I am going to get the biography first and then Unfurl The Colors.

John