General question

David Ireland

Corporal
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Nov 29, 2017
My great great grandfather is said to have lied about his age to get into the army. He is said to have been in a veterans volunteer unit in Pennsylvania driving a wagon train in the rear of the Union line and to have gotten scared by Confederate cannons at Gettysburg. He is also said to have been in the Battle of the Wilderness and made a comment that it was way worse than Gettysburg and that “‘I invented running that day, except back then they called it desertion.”


Upon doing research, I found records that he was drafted in 1864 in the Nicholson Township in Wyoming County Pennsylvania prior to the Overland Campaign. His unit, the 56th Pennsylvania Volunteers, was involved in the Battle of the Wilderness, and was in a rough part of it, so that part checks out. But I'm wondering if it is possible that the government's records are incomplete and that he did in fact serve prior to 1864. Is it likely that he could have been drafted if he had already served?


There's also an oral tradition story that he had a brother who was there, but nobody who is alive knows what his name was and I can't find any genealogical information on him.

I'd appreciate any input anyone has. His name was Joseph Winters, he was in Co. B, 56th PA Vol., and since he got a pension, it seems unlikely to me that he deserted for long if he did.

Thoughts?
 
What's even more perplexing is this card, showing a man by the same name buried in the same tiny cemetery he is in, with similar birth/death dates, except in a different regiment and after the war.

Is it likely that he re-enlisted after the 56th was mustered out and went south for reconstruction?

This card says he was in the 15th for 3 months in 1867, but:

A. It looks like it was only a 3 month regiment in 1861, not 1867

http://www.pa-roots.com/pacw/infantry/15th/15thcoe.html

B. This record has him mustering out with the company in 1861

http://www.pa-roots.com/pacw/infantry/15th/15thcoe.html


His pension records mention only the 56th.
 

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What's even more perplexing is this card, showing a man by the same name buried in the same tiny cemetery he is in, with similar birth/death dates, except in a different regiment and after the war.

Is it likely that he re-enlisted after the 56th was mustered out and went south for reconstruction?

This card says he was in the 15th for 3 months in 1867, but:

A. It looks like it was only a 3 month regiment in 1861, not 1867

http://www.pa-roots.com/pacw/infantry/15th/15thcoe.html

B. This record has him mustering out with the company in 1861

http://www.pa-roots.com/pacw/infantry/15th/15thcoe.html


His pension records mention only the 56th.

I'm guessing that the Joseph Winters in the 15th Pennsylvania was a different person since Company E was recruited around Harrisburg and your Joseph Winters was from up around Scranton. That would be awfully far to go to enlist unless he happened to be in Harrisburg to begin with.

Ryan

Ryan
 
My great great grandfather is said to have lied about his age to get into the army. He is said to have been in a veterans volunteer unit in Pennsylvania driving a wagon train in the rear of the Union line and to have gotten scared by Confederate cannons at Gettysburg. He is also said to have been in the Battle of the Wilderness and made a comment that it was way worse than Gettysburg and that “‘I invented running that day, except back then they called it desertion.”


Upon doing research, I found records that he was drafted in 1864 in the Nicholson Township in Wyoming County Pennsylvania prior to the Overland Campaign. His unit, the 56th Pennsylvania Volunteers, was involved in the Battle of the Wilderness, and was in a rough part of it, so that part checks out. But I'm wondering if it is possible that the government's records are incomplete and that he did in fact serve prior to 1864. Is it likely that he could have been drafted if he had already served?


There's also an oral tradition story that he had a brother who was there, but nobody who is alive knows what his name was and I can't find any genealogical information on him.

I'd appreciate any input anyone has. His name was Joseph Winters, he was in Co. B, 56th PA Vol., and since he got a pension, it seems unlikely to me that he deserted for long if he did.

Thoughts?

Was your 2 x great-grandma named Amanda ? If so, she applied for a widow's pension. There apparently were two regiments designated 56th PA Infantry, a three-year regiment your ancestor was drafted into, and a 3-month militia unit that had a soldier named Charles F. Winters. Enlisted and mustered on 6/27/1863. Mustered out on 8/13/1863.

56th penn.jpg
 
Was your 2 x great-grandma named Amanda ? If so, she applied for a widow's pension. There apparently were two regiments designated 56th PA Infantry, a three-year regiment your ancestor was drafted into, and a 3-month militia unit that had a soldier named Charles F. Winters. Enlisted and mustered on 6/27/1863. Mustered out on 8/13/1863.

View attachment 195413

The 3-month regiment was the 56th Pennsylvania Militia Infantry rather than the 56th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry. It does make it confusing.

Ryan
 
Was your 2 x great-grandma named Amanda ? If so, she applied for a widow's pension. There apparently were two regiments designated 56th PA Infantry, a three-year regiment your ancestor was drafted into, and a 3-month militia unit that had a soldier named Charles F. Winters. Enlisted and mustered on 6/27/1863. Mustered out on 8/13/1863.

View attachment 195413

Yes, his wife's name was Amanda. His gravestone says Co. B, 56th PA Vol. What was the legal age of getting into the army? If he was young, a year would make a difference, and he could have lied like our oral history says. Where did you find the 3 month militia info? Can you provide the source? Thanks for your effort in someone else' s history. I appreciate it.
 
Yes, his wife's name was Amanda. His gravestone says Co. B, 56th PA Vol. What was the legal age of getting into the army? If he was young, a year would make a difference, and he could have lied like our oral history says. Where did you find the 3 month militia info? Can you provide the source? Thanks for your effort in someone else' s history. I appreciate it.

Where did you find the 3 month militia info? Can you provide the source?

"History of Pennsylvania Volunteers, 1861-1865"


Pennsylvania
Emergency Troops of 1863.
Early in the summer of 1863, rumors were constantly afloat
concerning a threatened invasion of border states by the
Confederates and in June two new departments were established
by the war department -- the Department of the' Monongahela and
the Department of the Susquehanna -- in order that the state
might be protected from any such movement of the enemy.

Volunteers were called for by Gov. Curtin to serve "During: the
pleasure of the president or the continuance of the war."

Slow to believe that their homes were really endangered, the
greatly reduced number of men available for military service
hesitated to respond. On June 12, the governor published the
notice that the troops requested would be mustered into the
service of the United States for six months, or during the
existing emergency, as they should themselves elect.

In a short time eight regiments were mustered in for the
"emergency" and became the 20th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 28th, 30th,
31st and 33rd emergency regiments. Other companies and
organizations volunteered their services and need for them was
soon found.

The Confederates had occupied Chambersburg and Gettysburg and
when it was discovered that the main body of their forces had
actually crossed the Potomac, another proclamation was issued
by Gov. Curtin on June 26, calling for 60,000 men at once to be
mustered into the state service for a term of 90 days and to be
discharged as soon as the danger was over.

To this urgent message twenty-eight regiments responded and
were organized in the two departments previously mentioned, at
Huntingdon, Reading, Philadelphia and Harrisburg. A force
under Gen. Knipe approached Chambersburg, but found it in the
hands of the enemy and was obliged to retire gradually before
the advance of Johnson's division of Ewell's corps.

The Confederates reached Oyster Point, but were withdrawn to
Gettysburg on account of the advance of the Army of the Potomac
and within a few days was fought the battle of Gettysburg.

A portion of the militia joined the Army of the Potomac in
Maryland after the battle, but were soon afterward returned to
Harrisburg.

The emergency regiments were mustered out soon after the battle
of Gettysburg, the regiments of militia a little later, various
duties within the state requiring their services for a short
time.

Some were employed at Gettysburg, some at Philadelphia in
preserving order, and at other points they rendered valuable
service.

Source: The Union Army, vol. 1, p. 498

 
According to Pennsylvania's records, Joseph Winters was drafted in September 1864 which means that he would have missed out on the Overland Campaign. That being said, Pennsylvania's records are riddled with errors so the dates could be transcribed incorrectly.

Ryan

If this is true, him being at the Battle of Gettysburg would not be possible. This seems confusing. If he was drafted he would not have needed to lie about his age to voluntarily join the Army.
 
Here's what the SUVCW guy told me. I'm certain that this is him at the very least.

"Joseph Winters applied for a pension in Pennsylvania on 30 July 1890 (application no. 865757, cert. no. 783262). His wife, Amanda, applied for a widow's pension benefit in New York on 24 January 1920 (application no. 1151703). Her pension was denied (there is no certificate). One of the pension index card notes the death date of 6 December 1919, and the place as Binghamton. His information on the index cards confirms that he served as a Private in Company B, 56th PA Infantry from 29 September 1864 to 31 May 1865. This was the only service noted on the card (if he served in other regiments, it would be noted), so he apparently wasn't at Gettysburg. The 56th was involved in the Wilderness Campaign when he joined the regiment, so that part checks out."

I've also found these records. One is on the Pennsylvanians in the Civil War website, and the other is a newspaper from Oct 1864 containing the names of drafted men.


https://pawchs.org/draft-list-sep-1864/

http://php.scripts.psu.edu/~sam21/notes3.php?id=130595

Here's the one mentioned on his pension application:

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...oldierId=E70B60E0-DC7A-DF11-BF36-B8AC6F5D926A

Here's the 3 month enlistment:

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...oldierId=450B60E0-DC7A-DF11-BF36-B8AC6F5D926A

http://php.scripts.psu.edu/~sam21/notes3.php?id=82654

Here's the emergency unit:

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...oldierId=B40B60E0-DC7A-DF11-BF36-B8AC6F5D926A

http://php.scripts.psu.edu/~sam21/notes3.php?id=344957

Is there a way to compare the records to see if these were the same men, where they enlisted, etc?


Did soldiers who had previously fought ever get drafted?

Is it at all possible that he served with another unit, deserted, and then re-enlisted with another unit? Perhaps he didn't list the other unit on his pension application because he didn't want to get in trouble for deserting?


I forgot to mention that he is said to have belonged to a "veteran volunteer" unit.
 

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Here's what the SUVCW guy told me. I'm certain that this is him at the very least.

"Joseph Winters applied for a pension in Pennsylvania on 30 July 1890 (application no. 865757, cert. no. 783262). His wife, Amanda, applied for a widow's pension benefit in New York on 24 January 1920 (application no. 1151703). Her pension was denied (there is no certificate). One of the pension index card notes the death date of 6 December 1919, and the place as Binghamton. His information on the index cards confirms that he served as a Private in Company B, 56th PA Infantry from 29 September 1864 to 31 May 1865. This was the only service noted on the card (if he served in other regiments, it would be noted), so he apparently wasn't at Gettysburg. The 56th was involved in the Wilderness Campaign when he joined the regiment, so that part checks out."

I've also found these records. One is on the Pennsylvanians in the Civil War website, and the other is a newspaper from Oct 1864 containing the names of drafted men.


https://pawchs.org/draft-list-sep-1864/

http://php.scripts.psu.edu/~sam21/notes3.php?id=130595

Here's the one mentioned on his pension application:

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...oldierId=E70B60E0-DC7A-DF11-BF36-B8AC6F5D926A

Here's the 3 month enlistment:

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...oldierId=450B60E0-DC7A-DF11-BF36-B8AC6F5D926A

http://php.scripts.psu.edu/~sam21/notes3.php?id=82654

Here's the emergency unit:

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...oldierId=B40B60E0-DC7A-DF11-BF36-B8AC6F5D926A

http://php.scripts.psu.edu/~sam21/notes3.php?id=344957

Is there a way to compare the records to see if these were the same men, where they enlisted, etc?


Did soldiers who had previously fought ever get drafted?

Is it at all possible that he served with another unit, deserted, and then re-enlisted with another unit? Perhaps he didn't list the other unit on his pension application because he didn't want to get in trouble for deserting?


I forgot to mention that he is said to have belonged to a "veteran volunteer" unit.

The 56th Volunteer Infantry became the 56th Veteran Volunteer Infantry in March 1864 so that part checks out although if he joined in September 1864, he would have missed the Overland Campaign by several months and joined during the Petersburg siege.

Ryan
 
My dad just told me his son accompanied him to the Gettysburg reunion. That supports the theory that he was involved with the emergency 26th militia
 
Have you considered the possibility that when he lied about his age to join he also used another name? Then later he was called up under his real name?
 
My dad just told me his son accompanied him to the Gettysburg reunion. That supports the theory that he was involved with the emergency 26th militia

I checked the muster rolls for the 26th Emergency Militia and did not see any Winters on the roster. The closest name I found was John Winners.

Ryan
 
That’s funny because my name is John Winters haha.


What about the 20th?

What website are you using?

Thank you
 
Have you considered the possibility that when he lied about his age to join he also used another name? Then later he was called up under his real name?
I have. That’s definitely possible. Too bad I have no way of knowing if that were to be the case.
 
I'm guessing that the Joseph Winters in the 15th Pennsylvania was a different person since Company E was recruited around Harrisburg and your Joseph Winters was from up around Scranton. That would be awfully far to go to enlist unless he happened to be in Harrisburg to begin with.

Ryan

Ryan


That’s good to know. It’s just odd because:

A. I have not been able to find another Joseph Winters buried in that cemetery. Granted I haven’t been down to see it yet, but I have only found the 56th man online.
B. The cemetery is in the same area where he was drafted, as well as where he had a farm after the war, and where my great grandfather, George was born. It’s possible that they were different men, but it’s a small area.

I wish I knew more about what his siblings and parents names were. Maybe that would help. Is there some repository of records on soldiers? Do enlistment papers list the names of soldiers' parents, siblings, etc?

Thanks again
 
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