General John C Pemberton

[SJU]

While visiting Vicksburg a few years ago I picked up the only biography of Pemberton in the book store. It was small and gave a cursory description of his career. I know very little about him other than his surrender of the garrison. There has been plenty written about Grant and Joe Johnston but it seems not much on Pemberton.
This site is full of people knowledgeable about the Vicksburg campaign. What are your opinions on his generalship during the campaign and his other ACW activities?

 

[Biscoitos]

While visiting Vicksburg a few years ago I picked up the only biography of Pemberton in the book store. It was small and gave a cursory description of his career. I know very little about him other than his surrender of the garrison. There has been plenty written about Grant and Joe Johnston but it seems not much on Pemberton.
This site is full of people knowledgeable about the Vicksburg campaign. What are your opinions on his generalship during the campaign and his other ACW activities?

Is my friend Mike Ballard's "Pemberton" the bio you refer to?

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

There a

While visiting Vicksburg a few years ago I picked up the only biography of Pemberton in the book store. It was small and gave a cursory description of his career. I know very little about him other than his surrender of the garrison. There has been plenty written about Grant and Joe Johnston but it seems not much on Pemberton.
This site is full of people knowledgeable about the Vicksburg campaign. What are your opinions on his generalship during the campaign and his other ACW activities?

There are more than a few threads about Pemberton on these forums.

IMO, the man was in a "no-win scenario" from the start.

Specifically dealing with conflicting orders from his Superior Officer, General Joe Johnston
and Confederate States President Jefferson Davis.

 

[SJU]

Is my friend Mike Ballard's "Pemberton" the bio you refer to?

Not sure. It was a short book that wasn't meant to go into detail. Bought it at the visitor center.

 

[Georgia Sixth]

I'll echo 7th Mississippi. Pemberton was put in an impossible situation by his political and military superiors. He tried to find a middle ground to honorably serve both, and ended up finding himself in an impossible position, surrendering the largest confederate army before Appomattox. His countrymen heaped scorn on him, but he proved to be a selfless soldier, offering his services at reduced rank. I believe he wound up as a colonel serving in the defense of Charleston. I've often wondered how he would have handled Grant's brilliant crossing of the river below Vicksburg if he had not been continually undercut and seriously distracted by Johnston and Davis. What a toxic, dysfunctional combination they were.

 

[Vicksburger]

While visiting Vicksburg a few years ago I picked up the only biography of Pemberton in the book store. It was small and gave a cursory description of his career. I know very little about him other than his surrender of the garrison. There has been plenty written about Grant and Joe Johnston but it seems not much on Pemberton.
This site is full of people knowledgeable about the Vicksburg campaign. What are your opinions on his generalship during the campaign and his other ACW activities?

I agree with the above that he was put in an impossible position in that if he moved his entire force to contest Grant's crossing the Mississippi, ( as suggested by Joe Johnston), he ran the risk that Sherman might march into Vicksburg unmolested, either approaching from Snyder's Bluff or the riverfront, which meant giving up all the fortified positions and works at Vicksburg. Works that Grant never did breach, by the way. Lee found himself in a similar situation, later in 1864, when Grant maneuvered his way towards Richmond and that city eventually fell. Also, Pemberton never had all the advantages that Grant had with better arms, accoutrements, ammo, equipment, cannon, and so forth. The Yankees had an existing "war machine" whereas the Confederates had to beg, borrow and steal to come up with what they had. Lastly, Pemberton had two of his generals actively trying to undermine his efforts ( Bowen and Loring) which especially cost him the battle at Bakers Creek. Altogether, it is doubtful anyone, even Lee, could have been successful under these circumstances. I think if a part of the Army in Virginia ( say Longstreet's Corps) could have been sent west to bolster the Vicksburg army, then we could have been more successful. For instance look how Longstreet's Corps helped us win at Chickamauga. Here is a quote of Pemberton's: "Far better for me to die at the head of my troops, while leading a desperate attempt to cut our way out, than the obloquy which I know will be heaped upon me. But my duty is to sacrifice myself to save the army which has so nobly done its duty to defend Vicksburg." I think this shows the quality of the man that he in the end tried to save his men than to sacrifice them after such heroic efforts during the 47 days. I wish his remains would be re-interred in Vicksburg, as a tribute to him.

 

[Pete Longstreet]

I agree with the above that he was put in an impossible position in that if he moved his entire force to contest Grant's crossing the Mississippi, ( as suggested by Joe Johnston), he ran the risk that Sherman might march into Vicksburg unmolested, either approaching from Snyder's Bluff or the riverfront, which meant giving up all the fortified positions and works at Vicksburg. Works that Grant never did breach, by the way. Lee found himself in a similar situation, later in 1864, when Grant maneuvered his way towards Richmond and that city eventually fell. Also, Pemberton never had all the advantages that Grant had with better arms, accoutrements, ammo, equipment, cannon, and so forth. The Yankees had an existing "war machine" whereas the Confederates had to beg, borrow and steal to come up with what they had. Lastly, Pemberton had two of his generals actively trying to undermine his efforts ( Bowen and Loring) which especially cost him the battle at Bakers Creek. Altogether, it is doubtful anyone, even Lee, could have been successful under these circumstances. I think if a part of the Army in Virginia ( say Longstreet's Corps) could have been sent west to bolster the Vicksburg army, then we could have been more successful. For instance look how Longstreet's Corps helped us win at Chickamauga. Here is a quote of Pemberton's: "Far better for me to die at the head of my troops, while leading a desperate attempt to cut our way out, than the obloquy which I know will be heaped upon me. But my duty is to sacrifice myself to save the army which has so nobly done its duty to defend Vicksburg." I think this shows the quality of the man that he in the end tried to save his men than to sacrifice them after such heroic efforts during the 47 days. I wish his remains would be re-interred in Vicksburg, as a tribute to him.

Longstreet advocated for troops to be sent west prior to the fall of Vicksburg. But Lee wanted to take his army into Northern territory, thus starting the Gettysburg campaign. Longstreet called Vicksburg the "Lungs of the Confederacy" and saw the importance of it to remain in Confederate control. You make a good point and yes Longstreet's Corp did give much needed help during Chickamauga. But I think by the time the Battle of Chickamauga was fought, it was probably already too late to save the west. Vicksburg should have been reinforced before sending the Army of Northern Virginia north, which was then cut off from supply lines and forced to operate in hostile territory. The Gettysburg repulse on July 3rd and the surrender of Vicksburg on July 4th was the nail in the coffin. From July 4th on, it was just a matter of time.

 

[Pollaco]

I don't have anything to add, I'll just nod and agree with the previous posts.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Pemberton was probably humbler than anyone else to hold the rank of Major General or above in the Confederate Army.

Like David Hunter in the Union Army, he had long service that justified him being a general. Pemberton even fought in the Seminole and Mexican Wars. But both men proved a disappointment.

With the bad situation, especially Davis and Johnston giving contradictory instructions, other generals could have done better but I doubt any could have saved the city.

Pemberton should have never been promoted to Lt. General with essentially no Civil War experience. When Bragg and his subordinates had their falling out, Bragg or one of the malcontents should have been sent to Vicksburg and Major General Pemberton sent to command an AOT division.

 

[Pollaco]

I would imagine Pemberton eventually was sad he was ever promoted to Lt. General and could have remained just a Major General. That way it would have been someone else's headache.

 

[bankerpapaw]

There a

There are more than a few threads about Pemberton on these forums.

IMO, the man was in a "no-win scenario" from the start.

Specifically dealing with conflicting orders from his Superior Officer, General Joe Johnston
and Confederate States President Jefferson Davis.

Joe Johnston let Pemberton down. Pemberton was depending on him.

 

[Grant's Tomb]

Grant referred to him as a northern man who got into bad company. He was born in Philadelphia and is buried there in Laurel Hill Cemetery. Graduated from West Point in 1837 and was a roommate and close friend of George Meade. There was another Confederate officer named John Pemberton born in Knoxville, Georgia who was also a pharmacist that invented an early version of Coca Cola in 1866 but sold its rights to the drink shortly before his death in 1888. His middle name was Stith.

 

[Pete Longstreet]

When Bragg and his subordinates had their falling out, Bragg or one of the malcontents should have been sent to Vicksburg and Major General Pemberton sent to command an AOT division.

Are you referring to the petition by Bragg's subordinates to have him removed from command? Because this quarrel occurred early October of 63. Vicksburg had fallen months before.