Longstreet General James Longstreet

[kevikens]

Nathan, as a moderator you are entitled to referee these discussions, but sometimes you are dead wrong. I must take exception to your advice that we go out on this beautiful Saturday afternoon and throw Frisbees. Up here in Yankee land today the only thing we can throw around is ice chips, snow balls, rock salt and dead batteries.

 

[zeke]

On June 29th 1861 Longstreet reported at Richmond, requesting an appointment in The Pay Department, but received a Commission as Brig. General reporting to Beauregard at Manassas. Does anyone else think that request was a strange choice ???

I believe he was a paymaster in the United States army prior to his resignation...........

 

[Rebforever]

I believe he was a paymaster in the United States army prior to his resignation...........

That is where he belonged in the Confederate Army.

 

[Elennsar]

That is where he belonged in the Confederate Army.

As someone who wishes Second Manassas (to use his name for it) had been a defeat for Lee, I agree with you.

More to the point:
I refuse to read From Manassas To Appomattox as anything other than - at best - the writting of a bitter old man who may or may not have tried very hard to be more honest than his detractors - but he was consistently (if not "always" - no one has "always" next to them doing well, no matter how Virginian) a skilled commander and responsible for some of the most effectively launched attacks of the war on either side.

 

[BillO]

Everyone chill a bit. It's a beautiful Saturday afternoon. Go out and fling a frisbee or something if you can't be civil and avoid retorts and one-liners. I need to go throw stuff to my dog instead of sitting here moderating a bunch of 8th graders.

Posted in Capacity as Moderator

Gray and wet here so me and the dog are trapped like rats inside.

 

[Nathanb1]

Gray and wet here so me and the dog are trapped like rats inside.

Since you're civil and avoid retorts, I'd say you can stay in the warm spot.

 

[BillO]

Since you're civil and avoid retorts, I'd say you can stay in the warm spot.

I'm fairly mellow most times but my dog, well, he can be a bit pushy.

 

[Nathanb1]

I'm fairly mellow most times but my dog, well, he can be a bit pushy.

Well, then, monitor what he types

 

[FarawayFriend]

I have read Wert's book, Cash, and I really can't agree that it was excellent. I found it very hard to read and Wert never seemed be able to make up his own mind about what his opinion was about Longstreet. While I don't contest his scholarship, which was admirable, I was disappointed with his writing. Just my opinion.

I'm so relieved to hear you say this. I'm just trying to read it again after I have given it a break of several weeks. But the spark just isn't igniting, although I want to like this book as it is said to be the best biography of him. This time I won't give up again, but I agree, it's a hard read.

 

[Nathanb1]

Nathan, as a moderator you are entitled to referee these discussions, but sometimes you are dead wrong. I must take exception to your advice that we go out on this beautiful Saturday afternoon and throw Frisbees. Up here in Yankee land today the only thing we can throw around is ice chips, snow balls, rock salt and dead batteries.

Heh. It's a wicked Texan plot. Hopefully everyone who's been bad will go out and be brained by an ice chunk falling off the roof.

 

[zeke]

As someone who wishes Second Manassas (to use his name for it) had been a defeat for Lee, I agree with you.

More to the point:
I refuse to read From Manassas To Appomattox as anything other than - at best - the writting of a bitter old man who may or may not have tried very hard to be more honest than his detractors - but he was consistently (if not "always" - no one has "always" next to them doing well, no matter how Virginian) a skilled commander and responsible for some of the most effectively launched attacks of the war on either side.

As you said second manassas, Chickamauga, and the Wilderness come immediately to mind........

 

[Northern Light]

T

Heh. It's a wicked Texan plot. Hopefully everyone who's been bad will go out and be brained by an ice chunk falling off the roof.

his made me laugh, because up here in the Frozen North we actually have signs on building, warning pedestrians of falling ice.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Nailed it! That is part of it. His arguments with Lee were mostly my thoughts about him bordering on insubordination.

I think he have been unfairly treated in many ways. Like the invented morning order for the 2nd July.
Also I think the problems that day show very well the problems of operating in enemy territory like the Union usually do.
Compere the problems to the flanking attacks at Chancellorsville or later in wilderness.... where they had local help.

And he have been hated for his actions postwar. I can understand why, but it is not fair to use against him when judging his wartime record.
Also I think his book can be understood. A bitter old man who from age and in an attempt to defend him self did make a lot of mistakes.
I also think he gets too little credit for the things he did do.


But on the 3rd July 1863 he was insubordinate in my opinion. He should have shut up and said "yes sir adn done his fullest to carry out Lee's plan. Or he should have refused to carry out the orders and taken the punishment. Skulking and only doing his job partly do not do him credit.
And his "political" actions out west was not Honorable.

In the end a complex person, like most are... with good sides and bad.

 

[Elennsar]

What exactly did Longstreet not do on July 3 as far as doing his fullest to carry out Lee's plan? Not smile enough? Or something more substantial?

 

[thomas aagaard]

He didn't supervise the brigades he got from outside his own command. and focused on his own.
Pettigrew's command had lost 1/3 of its men, 3 of 4 brigades had new commanders and Pettigrew himself was new to commanding a division. so a pretty weak division placed on the open flank of the attack.
Also they where in a single line that gave it less depth and power.
This was "a grievous error" as Longstreet himself admitted later.
(Of cause both Lee and Hill share some blame for this. Lee was there during the deployment and Hill should have made sure his commander and/or Longstreet knew the problems with the division)

He more or less shifted the responsibility of when to attack to a junior artillery officer.
He did not make sure that the actual attack had proper artillery support.(and yes others share in that blame, but since he planned and commanded the attack it is also his)

It is mistakes or oversights he didn't make on a good day.
His lack of confidence in the plan effected his performance, again something he himself write in his memoirs.
(in an attempt to shift blame to Lee)

I consider my self a fan of Longstreet, but clearly he had a bad day. (something most Generals had at some point)