Forrest Forrest wounded, defeated at Tupelo

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

TIM ISBELL - The Battle of Tupelo was a defeat for Nathan Bedford Forrest and Stephen D. Lee.


BY TIM ISBELL
[email protected] 12, 2014

Even though William T. Sherman was in Georgia, the whereabouts of Nathan Bedford Forrest was always on his mind. Since Forrest's victories at Fort Pillow and Brice's Crossroads, Sherman called for Union cavalry to hunt down the "devil" Forrest. On July 14, 1864, Sherman got his wish as Forrest was defeated at Tupelo.

Sherman's obsession with Forrest was understandable. Forrest threatened the important Federal supply line from Tennessee to Georgia. Any disruption due to Forrest's raids could cripple Sherman's Atlanta campaign.

Read more here: http://www.sunherald.com/2014/07/12...ated-at-tupelo.html?sp=/99/160/#storylink=cpy

 

[Stony]

Thanks for sharing. One thing jumped out at me in the piece.

Braxton Bragg, who was now serving as advisor to Davis, continually downplayed the importance of Forrest's victories.

 

[Nathanb1]

Good point, Stony. We might add, "Duh." But that would be giving too much importance to Bragg, so I'll omit it.

The other is that, once again, Forrest was under someone else's command (Lee) and told him his battle plan wouldn't work. Now--Forrest certainly mucked up Lee's plan, but I frankly haven't been convinced it would have worked anyway.

What I'm slowly getting at is--the guy was good under his own decision-making power. Not so good at getting along with superiors who ordered him to do stupid stuff. Does that make sense?

 

[diane]

Lee had wanted Forrest to lead the action but he declined and told Lee he didn't think it was a good idea, that the Federals were entrenched. Forrest never made more than a swipe at entrenched Federals. A J Smith and Grierson were two of Sherman's best cavalrymen, and it's wasn't just luck that Grierson was holding down the spot where Forrest was repulsed. Forrest was very sick during this battle with fever and boils - did most of his riding standing up!

The foot injury turned out to be the most painful injury Forrest ever got, and he got some beauties. The ball entered the ball of his right foot and traveled along the length of the sole. About a minute later he was winged in the upper arm by a bullet that also winged his son, who was riding close behind him! Don't know if that ever happened anywhere else in the CW, where father and son were shot by the same bullet. The foot wound made him do some howling, though, and that's probably what made his men think he was dead. The rumor went around like a prairie fire and it was not enough to send word around that he was all right - the battle was going to the dogs right rapidly. So, Forrest left his coat and hat on the ground and mounted his horse. He rode along the whole line, making sure everyone got a good look and saw it was him, alive and well enough to ride, then he went back to the doc. Riding was not going to be possible with his foot all wrapped up, so he found a beat-up old buggy and rode around the field in it with his foot propped up on the dash. That must have been some sight!

 

[tmh10]

Forrest was a concern for all the Union Generals as he was not a West Point man and his tactics were not in the so called book. On more than one occasion he was in a very vulnerable position, yet made out like he had the superior position and demanded surrender. Also he knew how to get the most out of his troops and they trusted his leadership, often performing above their ability. That is my opinion and some may disagree. He didn't lose many battles and even in situations like Franklin and Battle of Nashville did a comendable job.

 

[diane]

Good point, Stony. We might add, "Duh." But that would be giving too much importance to Bragg, so I'll omit it.

The other is that, once again, Forrest was under someone else's command (Lee) and told him his battle plan wouldn't work. Now--Forrest certainly mucked up Lee's plan, but I frankly haven't been convinced it would have worked anyway.

What I'm slowly getting at is--the guy was good under his own decision-making power. Not so good at getting along with superiors who ordered him to do stupid stuff. Does that make sense?

Forrest, at the time of this battle, had requested a leave - he was pretty sick. He had an iron constitution and recovered amazingly fast from almost anything - two weeks after his surgery for the minie ball in his back - but the strain of four years of hard war was telling. He had developed crushing migraines and occasionally passed out. There was more wrong than just boils - which was enough. Perhaps if he'd gotten that rest without Bragg pulling tricks on him, he might have lived a little longer after the war.

 

[rbasin]

Good point, Stony. We might add, "Duh." But that would be giving too much importance to Bragg, so I'll omit it.

The other is that, once again, Forrest was under someone else's command (Lee) and told him his battle plan wouldn't work. Now--Forrest certainly mucked up Lee's plan, but I frankly haven't been convinced it would have worked anyway.

What I'm slowly getting at is--the guy was good under his own decision-making power. Not so good at getting along with superiors who ordered him to do stupid stuff. Does that make sense?

You're right. Jackson, to me, was another guy that was better by himself than he was under Lee. The North had some guys like this too, but for the sake of not having that argument, I'm keeping them to myself

 

[Bob Owen]

Forrest wasn't defeated! He just thought the fight at the time wasn't worth it!

 

[Stony]

Good point, Stony. We might add, "Duh." But that would be giving too much importance to Bragg, so I'll omit it.

The other is that, once again, Forrest was under someone else's command (Lee) and told him his battle plan wouldn't work. Now--Forrest certainly mucked up Lee's plan, but I frankly haven't been convinced it would have worked anyway.

What I'm slowly getting at is--the guy was good under his own decision-making power. Not so good at getting along with superiors who ordered him to do stupid stuff. Does that make sense?

Yes I agree. Forrest worked better under his own command. He was a free thinker.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Forrest wasn't defeated! He just thought the fight at the time wasn't worth it!

I like positive attitudes.

 

[Nathanb1]

You're right. Jackson, to me, was another guy that was better by himself than he was under Lee. The North had some guys like this too, but for the sake of not having that argument, I'm keeping them to myself

The two Lees don't really bear comparison, anyway, do they? I'm not doubting Stephen Dill's bravery, or his prowess with artillery....but I kind of think we're looking at another guy who got promoted beyond his abilities.

And I think Jackson did nicely under Robert Edward. That, to my mind, was a match made in heaven, once they learned to work together. But your opinion may differ.

Same song, second thousandth verse--Forrest didn't play well with most others. Unfortunately, they didn't find someone he'd play with -- and who appreciated him and his talents -- until far too late.

 

[diane]

Forrest wasn't defeated! He just thought the fight at the time wasn't worth it!

I agree - it was S D Lee's defeat, not Forrest's. But he made a bad mistake - us with our 20-20 hindsight glasses on! - by not committing all his corps at a critical time. Roddy's remained out and they probably would have made all the difference. Forrest almost never made that kind of a tactical error, which shows how sick he was. And, Forrest declined command for that reason as well as the very good reason he thought the battle was lost before it began. He hated to lose!

 

[Nathanb1]

I agree - it was S D Lee's defeat, not Forrest's. But he made a bad mistake - us with our 20-20 hindsight glasses on! - by not committing all his corps at a critical time. Roddy's remained out and they probably would have made all the difference. Forrest almost never made that kind of a tactical error, which shows how sick he was. And, Forrest declined command for that reason as well as the very good reason he thought the battle was lost before it began. He hated to lose!

But if you read -- ahem -- modern takes, it's all about Forrest's mistake--not Lee's in the first place. Roddey's might have made a difference--and they might not. LOL. Got my other favorite guy over there on the other side of the fence--who got HIS hind end handed to him at Brice's Crossroads! I suspect old Ben was tired of running. Funny thing about that old musician. He didn't have no West Point education either....

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I may be wrong here, but I've always had a feeling S.D.Lee was not necessarily
ignoring Forrest's advice or trying to pull rank.

I've always had a feeling Lee was in a position where in his mind, it's his call and he truly thought the attack would work.

He reminds me of people I've worked for in the government sector.

Political appointee types that consider any opposing view from the veterans as a "you're not being a team player" thing.

Don't get wrong, actually overall I admire Stephen D. Lee, but IMO. . . he should have listened to Forrest's advice at Tupelo.

As Nate said, S.D. Lee was yet "another guy who got promoted beyond his abilities."

 

[Nathanb1]

I may be wrong here, but I've always had a feeling S.D.Lee was not necessarily
ignoring Forrest's advice or trying to pull rank.

I've always had a feeling Lee was in a position where in his mind, it's his call and he truly thought the attack would work.

He reminds me of people I've worked for in the government sector.

Political appointee types that consider any opposing view from the veterans as a "you're not being a team player" thing.

Don't get wrong, actually overall I admire Stephen D. Lee, but IMO. . . he should have listened to Forrest's advice at Tupelo.

As Nate said, S.D. Lee was yet "another guy who got promoted beyond his abilities."

Oh, I don't think anything except he thought he was right. I mean, he was from West Point. And not to be funny, but he was from the Lee school of "Straight up the middle." You know, sometimes that works--in football. And at Gaines Mill, for some crazy reason. But you don't call it every time, otherwise you'll get stuffed on the four yard line.

If you look at the maps, this one was not good play-calling anyhow. And if I have to take Lee's assessment and put it against Forrest's of northern Mississippi terrain, this is a no-brainer. Boy wonder that Lee was, and all. I personally feel he was smarting a bit because, frankly, Forrest's big win at Brice's Crossroads was not his idea, and Forrest, rightly, got all the credit. That is not a good situation for Lee, Forrest, or any of the guys who went up against that line.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Regardless of how well Forrest was equipped at the time of the battle, he has been well supplied with excuses afterward. He was sick, and it was someone else's fault anyway, etc., etc..

 

[Nathanb1]

Regardless of how well Forrest was equipped at the time of the battle, he has been well supplied with excuses afterward. He was sick, and it was someone else's fault anyway, etc., etc..

Oh, well, please allow me to be the first to suggest you explain why it should have been done Lee's way...or at all. You've spent how much time studying Tupelo? I'd love to hear why Lee's plan was beautifully made and undoubtedly would have been successful. Your turn.

I was sort of giving Grierson the credit...but be my guest.

 

[Nathanb1]

From the Civil War Trust "Battle of Tupelo" Website (Bold part by me):

The Battle of Tupelo
July 14-15, 1864

Maj. Gen. A.J. Smith, commanding a combined force of more than 14,000 men, left LaGrange, Tennessee, on July 5, 1864, and advanced south. Smith's mission was to insure that Maj. Gen. Nathan B. Forrest and his cavalry did not raid Maj. Gen. William T. Sherman's railroad lifeline in Middle Tennessee and, thereby, prevent supplies from reaching him in his campaign against Atlanta. Laying waste to the countryside as he advanced, Smith reached Pontotoc, Mississippi, on July 11. Forrest was in nearby Okolona with about 6,000 men, but his commander, Lt. Gen. Stephen D. Lee, told him he could not attack until he was reinforced. Two days later, Smith, fearing an ambush, moved east toward Tupelo. On the previous day, Lee arrived near Pontotoc with 2,000 additional men and, under his command, the entire Confederate force engaged Smith. Within two miles of the Federals, on the night of the 13th, Lee ordered an attack for the next morning. Lee attacked at 7:30 am the next morning in a number of uncoordinated assaults which the Yankees beat back, causing heavy casualties. Lee halted the fighting after a few hours. Short on rations, Smith did not pursue but started back to Memphis on the 15th. Criticized for not destroying Forrest's command, Smith had caused much damage and had fulfilled his mission of insuring Sherman's supply lines.

 

[Nathanb1]

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[Nathanb1]

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And this, folks, is why we love the Civil War Trust. Readable maps. This is the NPS first day map. LOL