Fold3 lookup please ?

[John Winn]

I'd be most grateful if somebody could look up the records for these two brothers:

Thomas Poindexter Fakes
Robert A. Fakes

I know they were in the 14th Tennessee Infantry.

Thanks !

 

[Barnesville Blues]

No much on either I'm afraid. Looks like Robert died and Thomas was discharged shortly after enlisting.

 

[John Winn]

No much on either I'm afraid. Looks like Robert died and Thomas was discharged shortly after enlisting.View attachment 93820 View attachment 93821 View attachment 93822 View attachment 93823

Thanks a bunch for that. I'm confused though as the muster roll dates are 1864 yet it says they were out in 1861. Did they have to report everybody who was no longer with the unit on every muster roll ? I don't understand.

Now Robert may well have died as I lose him in the census after 1860. Thomas lived until 1894 and fathered a bunch of children so I do wonder how disabled he was in 1861 !

 

[Barnesville Blues]

You are more than welcome...just paying it forward.

Disability could mean anything and may not have been anything life threatening. I have seen soldiers discharged for disability for being deaf and unable to hear commands, having a burn on their leg. One of my own ancestors was discharged for necrosis of the lower jaw but he got over it and reenlisted in the same company and regiment, ended up losing a foot at Wilderness... but disability could mean anything.....anything that kept them from preforming the duties of a soldier.

I have seen soldier stay on a roster after being discharged as well or captured....they will keep listing them as Captured or discharged but usually they are eventually dropped from the roll.

 

[John Winn]

You are more than welcome...just paying it forward.

Disability could mean anything and may not have been anything life threatening. I have seen soldiers discharged for disability for being deaf and unable to hear commands, having a burn on their leg. One of my own ancestors was discharged for necrosis of the lower jaw but he got over it and reenlisted in the same company and regiment, ended up losing a foot at Wilderness... but disability could mean anything.....anything that kept them from preforming the duties of a soldier.

I have seen soldier stay on a roster after being discharged as well or captured....they will keep listing them as Captured or discharged but usually they are eventually dropped from the roll.

That is most interesting. I'd have thought once you were declared disabled you were gone.

Anyhoo ... what's the deal with the dates ? 1864 and 1861 on the same record ?

 

[Barnesville Blues]

That is most interesting. I'd have thought once you were declared disabled you were gone.

Anyhoo ... what's the deal with the dates ? 1864 and 1861 on the same record ?

This information is coming from a muster roll from this regiment supposedly housed in National Archives somewhere. The muster roll this came from was dated March 30, 1864, it looks like they just kept them on the rolls even after their death and discharge.

 

[DixieRifles]

My first thought was he was too disabled to serve in the Infantry but he joined up when General Forrest began recruiting in Tennessee.

Here are some NARA cards for the Regiment (from Fold3). These cards under the Unit Information would list the Officers and give an account of each one and then it gave a history of each company. Some regiments will have several detailed entries whereas other regiments will have a Card that simply states where they camped.
The 14 Tennessee has several cards giving a history for the Field and Staff (see header). The first companies have some history on a few cards. When you get to Company D---which was said to be Robert's company---it has several blank cards with just a record of where they were camped and all were in Virginia.
There was one card that is of interest.

First the Staff card that details where the regiment was mustered in.
It is strange that this is Dated 1864 in Virginia but it is describing the muster in Camp Duncan, Tennessee.
That is confusing.

Now a card for Company D---the only one with any real info.
It is dated 1863 just prior to Gettysburg while there were at Culpepper Court House, VA. It starts out by saying we haven't had time to fill out muster roll because we were on the march all this time. (??)
They lost all their officers so maybe that explains why they lost their muster rolls and had to re-create them in 1864.

 

[DixieRifles]

Oh. Here is what was written down for Company E.

They didn't have an officer to sign the rolls.

 

[John Winn]

My first thought was he was too disabled to serve in the Infantry but he joined up when General Forrest began recruiting in Tennessee.

Here are some NARA cards for the Regiment (from Fold3). These cards under the Unit Information would list the Officers and give an account of each one and then it gave a history of each company. Some regiments will have several detailed entries whereas other regiments will have a Card that simply states where they camped.
The 14 Tennessee has several cards giving a history for the Field and Staff (see header). The first companies have some history on a few cards. When you get to Company D---which was said to be Robert's company---it has several blank cards with just a record of where they were camped and all were in Virginia.
There was one card that is of interest.

First the Staff card that details where the regiment was mustered in.
It is strange that this is Dated 1864 in Virginia but it is describing the muster in Camp Duncan, Tennessee.
That is confusing.
View attachment 93873

Now a card for Company D---the only one with any real info.
It is dated 1863 just prior to Gettysburg while there were at Culpepper Court House, VA. It starts out by saying we haven't had time to fill out muster roll because we were on the march all this time. (??)
They lost all their officers so maybe that explains why they lost their muster rolls and had to re-create them in 1864.

View attachment 93874

Thanks for doing all of that.

Yes, the 1864 dates are confusing but I rather think you are right that they had to try and re-create the muster rolls. That's the only way it can make sense unless they had a time machine (and those were very scarce in the Confederate service). I'd have thought the officers would have had better things to have staff do than re-create years-old paperwork or continue to report about discharged and dead people. Geez ... that's the military for you.

 

[DixieRifles]

I'm still trying to figure it out. They join into companies and the a regiment and leave for Virginia. But it seems to say they had no officer to fill out the rolls for the War Department.
This is an early Regiment so maybe they had to elect their officers.

On the other hand, they formed with officers but they were all killed & had to recreate the paper work. Remember we are reading these cards that were transcribed by an Archivist who is writing the info from originals.

 

[BrianB]

I submit that the reason for the 1861 names showing up on the 1864 roll is found in the text printed on the note cards reproduced above -- an Act of the Tennessee Legislature required a "Minute Roll" of each volunteer to be returned to the State's Adjutant General, to be compiled into a "well bound book".

In other words, Tennessee was trying to create some sort of master list of its volunteers for the entire war, and the regiment prepared an 1864 roll listing deaths and discharges back in 1861 to comply with the legislative mandate.

 

[DixieRifles]

Thanks BrianB

 

[Keiri]

Huh, I have fold3, where do you find NARA cards?

 

[Barnesville Blues]

Huh, I have fold3, where do you find NARA cards?

They don't exist for all organizations. Go to the compiled service record and to the the part where you pick the letter of the soldiers last name...if the unit has these cards they should appear on same page as the surname letters and be called "Unit Information" Again, not all organizations have them.

 

[Keiri]

Thank you. Didn't notice that before.

 

[John Winn]

I submit that the reason for the 1861 names showing up on the 1864 roll is found in the text printed on the note cards reproduced above -- an Act of the Tennessee Legislature required a "Minute Roll" of each volunteer to be returned to the State's Adjutant General, to be compiled into a "well bound book".

In other words, Tennessee was trying to create some sort of master list of its volunteers for the entire war, and the regiment prepared an 1864 roll listing deaths and discharges back in 1861 to comply with the legislative mandate.

That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.