FL RR Iron for Mobile Floating Battery

[DaveBrt]

When Confederate troops left Pensacola to participate in the Battle of Shiloh, if became very clear that the Alabama & Florida (of Florida) RR's iron needed to be removed to safety so that the Union force in the Pensacole area did not come ashore and remove or destroy the iron. Many miles of iron was removed to Pollard, out of the reach of the small Union forces in the area.

In January, 1863. the Mobile command removed more of the iron so that the Navy could make a floating battery. Below are the documents that I have found showing the amount of iron moved for that project. The rails were 21 feet long and weighed 58 pounds to the yard

http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_6-3-62.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-3-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-8A-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-31-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-31A-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_2-x-63.htm

I hope someone finds this information useful.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Sir, found the docs of the Alabama & Florida (of Florida) RR...enlightening. Especially the Annual Report from '67. Lots of lawsuits against other RRs that received her 'appropriated' property. How did they turn out?

Must have been difficult coming to an agreement over price of the seized material with the CSG when the A & F (F) RR is waving a piece of paper written by the 'Pros from Tredegar' about rails being $125 to $150 when the CSG paid $70 earlier.

Did the State of FLA ever official weigh in on the matter?

This must have rung bells (not good ones) across the South about the power of the Central Government vs. States Rights.

Also noticed references to the use of 'impressed labor' if needed. Where those owners embattled as much as the RR over costs and compensation?

Thanks!
USS ALASKA

 

[DaveBrt]

Sir, found the docs of the Alabama & Florida (of Florida) RR...enlightening. Especially the Annual Report from '67. Lots of lawsuits against other RRs that received her 'appropriated' property. How did they turn out?

Must have been difficult coming to an agreement over price of the seized material with the CSG when the A & F (F) RR is waving a piece of paper written by the 'Pros from Tredegar' about rails being $125 to $150 when the CSG paid $70 earlier.

Did the State of FLA ever official weigh in on the matter?

This must have rung bells (not good ones) across the South about the power of the Central Government vs. States Rights.

Also noticed references to the use of 'impressed labor' if needed. Where those owners embattled as much as the RR over costs and compensation?

Thanks!
USS ALASKA

I have not followed the story into the post-war period, so I cannot answer what the State of Florida did or what the RR finally received. The owners of impressed slaves were usually paid promptly -- the dollars required were few (compared to the RR's $100,000 or so) and everyone wanted to keep the owners happy.

 

[rebelatsea]

When Confederate troops left Pensacola to participate in the Battle of Shiloh, if became very clear that the Alabama & Florida (of Florida) RR's iron needed to be removed to safety so that the Union force in the Pensacole area did not come ashore and remove or destroy the iron. Many miles of iron was removed to Pollard, out of the reach of the small Union forces in the area.

In January, 1863. the Mobile command removed more of the iron so that the Navy could make a floating battery. Below are the documents that I have found showing the amount of iron moved for that project. The rails were 21 feet long and weighed 58 pounds to the yard

http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_6-3-62.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-3-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-8A-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-31-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-31A-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial D as weocs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_2-x-63.htm

I hope someone finds this information useful.

DaveBrt, that may well explain where the armour came from for the Huntsville & Tuscaloosa and just possibly CSS Powell and CSS Montgomery. Both of the latter engined, armed and armoured at Mobile. Still don't know where their guns came from as we have accounted for Selma production.

 

[DaveBrt]

DaveBrt, that may well explain where the armour came from for the Huntsville & Tuscaloosa and just possibly CSS Powell and CSS Montgomery. Both of the latter engined, armed and armoured at Mobile. Still don't know where their guns came from as we have accounted for Selma production.

This accounts for 406 tons of armor, so probably enough for one full casement ship.

 

[rebelatsea]

This accounts for 406 tons of armor, so probably enough for one full casement ship.

Thanks I think Dave. That spar torpedoes one theory !

 

[georgew]

When Confederate troops left Pensacola to participate in the Battle of Shiloh, if became very clear that the Alabama & Florida (of Florida) RR's iron needed to be removed to safety so that the Union force in the Pensacole area did not come ashore and remove or destroy the iron. Many miles of iron was removed to Pollard, out of the reach of the small Union forces in the area.

In January, 1863. the Mobile command removed more of the iron so that the Navy could make a floating battery. Below are the documents that I have found showing the amount of iron moved for that project. The rails were 21 feet long and weighed 58 pounds to the yard

http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_6-3-62.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-3-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-8A-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-31-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-31A-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_2-x-63.htm

I hope someone finds this information useful.

Hi Dave: was it unusual for a road of this date to have rail this light? I was under the impression that by 1860 most of the T-rail going down was in the 62-65 lb/yd range. Do we know if this was the rail used to iron the "square" battery at Mobile?

 

[georgew]

This accounts for 406 tons of armor, so probably enough for one full casement ship.

Dave, is your assumption here one layer of reversed T-rail for ironing?

 

[georgew]

When Confederate troops left Pensacola to participate in the Battle of Shiloh, if became very clear that the Alabama & Florida (of Florida) RR's iron needed to be removed to safety so that the Union force in the Pensacole area did not come ashore and remove or destroy the iron. Many miles of iron was removed to Pollard, out of the reach of the small Union forces in the area.

In January, 1863. the Mobile command removed more of the iron so that the Navy could make a floating battery. Below are the documents that I have found showing the amount of iron moved for that project. The rails were 21 feet long and weighed 58 pounds to the yard

http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_6-3-62.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-3-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-8A-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-31-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_1-31A-63.htm
http://csa-railroads.com/Essays/Orignial Docs/NA/NA,_A_and_F_2-x-63.htm

I hope someone finds this information useful.

Hi again Dave: Does the following bare any resemblance to reality as you know it? You've given us three key numbers. 1) total weight of iron pulled (406 tons); 2) weight of iron per yard (58 lbs); 3) length per rail - 21 ft (7 yds). Where I come from 406 tons x 2000 lbs/ton = 812,000 lbs; each rail is 21 ft = 7 yds x 58 lbs/yd = 406 lbs/rail; 812,000/406 = 2000 rails x 21 ft/rail = 42,000 ft/5280 ft/mile = 7.95 miles of single rail/2 = 3.97 linear miles of two rail track. So for this wt of iron it ran about 100 tons/mile for parallel track. This seems consistent with your estimate of 300 tons of iron pulled up by the River Defense Service on that short-line at Eunice, Arkansas. Was this 58 lb/yd rail more common in the south? I got the impression somewhere that siding rail was in the low 50's on the roads with rail in the 60's more common on main lines. Would this lighter rail tend to wear faster?

 

[DaveBrt]

Hi Dave: was it unusual for a road of this date to have rail this light? I was under the impression that by 1860 most of the T-rail going down was in the 62-65 lb/yd range. Do we know if this was the rail used to iron the "square" battery at Mobile?

GeorgeW,

This road did not anticipate seeing the heavy weight and constant usage that some roads would see, so cheaper rail was ok in order to get the road built and in operation. The exact poundage for rail (ie 58 vs 62) was less important than the use of the rail and the quality of the iron. Several southern RRs sent or hired inspectors to be on-site in Wales when the rail was being made to ensure they got the quality they were paying for.

 

[DaveBrt]

Dave, is your assumption here one layer of reversed T-rail for ironing?

Many years ago, I researched the weight of armor used for every Southern casement ironclad. I found that they averaged about 450 tons. So, 406 tons = one casement ironclad.

 

[georgew]

GeorgeW,

This road did not anticipate seeing the heavy weight and constant usage that some roads would see, so cheaper rail was ok in order to get the road built and in operation. The exact poundage for rail (ie 58 vs 62) was less important than the use of the rail and the quality of the iron. Several southern RRs sent or hired inspectors to be on-site in Wales when the rail was being made to ensure they got the quality they were paying for.

Thanks for the clarification Dave. By the way people, you really need to go on line and check out Dave's www.csa-railroads.com site. It must be the most exhaustive examination of period railways ever done with some surprising insights into the infrastructure and supporting logistics of the era. In particular I was intrigued by his posting of an 1859 article from Texas describing the shop facilities of the Houston & Texas Central RR. It goes a long way in explaining Gen. Magruder's efforts to protect Houston at all costs and why that city was essentially the Selma of Texas in terms of industry and production. They actually could build some serious machinery at Houston (i.e. rifled cannon out of the drive shafts of the USS Westfield), but Dave is very accurate about the wear issues on the tracks in the south. In Texas Magruder banned traffic other than military on the line running east through Orange to the Sabine river because of the condition of the road which impacted commerce and shipment of cotton to Galveston for the runners.

 

[DaveBrt]

Hi again Dave: Does the following bare any resemblance to reality as you know it? You've given us three key numbers. 1) total weight of iron pulled (406 tons); 2) weight of iron per yard (58 lbs); 3) length per rail - 21 ft (7 yds). Where I come from 406 tons x 2000 lbs/ton = 812,000 lbs; each rail is 21 ft = 7 yds x 58 lbs/yd = 406 lbs/rail; 812,000/406 = 2000 rails x 21 ft/rail = 42,000 ft/5280 ft/mile = 7.95 miles of single rail/2 = 3.97 linear miles of two rail track. So for this wt of iron it ran about 100 tons/mile for parallel track. This seems consistent with your estimate of 300 tons of iron pulled up by the River Defense Service on that short-line at Eunice, Arkansas. Was this 58 lb/yd rail more common in the south? I got the impression somewhere that siding rail was in the low 50's on the roads with rail in the 60's more common on main lines. Would this lighter rail tend to wear faster?

Yes, railroads at that time averaged 100 tons of rail (both tracks) per mile. Yes, sidings and light use feeder lines used lighter track than the main track on many roads, but many roads used the same rail for all uses.

 

[georgew]

Many years ago, I researched the weight of armor used for every Southern casement ironclad. I found that they averaged about 450 tons. So, 406 tons = one casement ironclad.

Ah, interesting. I guess we have to assume that most of that iron was rolled plate versus the T-rail used Louisiana and Arkansas. I was going to quibble a bit about some of the late builds, but many of them had shortened casemates with heavier iron at the ends so it appears to be wash and you're right in your estimate.