Firearms for Union Kentucky Regiments

[Kyle Kalasnik]

Good morning everyone,

I was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction in finding out what muskets and or rifle muskets that regiments from Kentucky in the Union Army would have carried.

I am specifically looking at the 23rd KY Infantry and 53rd KY Mounted Infantry.

Thank you.

Respectfully,
Kyle Kalasnik

 

[WJC]

23rd KY Infantry and 53rd KY Mounted Infantry

My understanding is that the 23rd KY Infantry was issued the .54 Cal Austrian Lorentz. I don't know what 53rd KY Mounted Infantry carried.

 

[Kyle Kalasnik]

My understanding is that the 23rd KY Infantry was issued the .54 Cal Austrian Lorentz. I don't know what 53rd KY Mounted Infantry carried.

Appreciate it thanks a bunch. I'll keep digging on the 53rd.

 

[Craig L Barry]

The irony with these kind of inquiries is that it presumes two things about arms issuance... both that it happens once and everybody is issued the same thing at the same time. This quote from a Civil War diary appears elsewhere on the forum but I like it because it says a lot about that in just a few sentences.

"Some of our boys got Austrian rifles, some Enfield, and others Springfield. I got the Enfield, and Bob got the finest arm of the whole lot, a fine United States Springfield rifle. Training in the use of these weapons was startlingly belated and haphazard." - Pvt. Orrin W. Cook, Company B. 22nd Regt. Massachusetts Volunteers.

 

[Don Dixon]

The irony with these kind of inquiries is that it presumes two things about arms issuance... both that it happens once and everybody is issued the same thing at the same time.

Craig is entirely correct in his observation regarding arms issues. The 23rd was armed with the following Austrian arms. Since that is my research interest, I did not make notes on the other arms carried.

23rd Kentucky Infantry: The 23rd was organized at Louisa, Kentucky, on 20 January 1862, and was mustered out of service on 20 January 1865.

The Quarterly Ordnance Reports contain the following regarding the 23rd:

Quarter	Weapon	Caliber	Number/Comment
4th, 1862	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	309 (8 companies reporting)
1st, 1863	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	376 (10 companies reporting)
2nd, 1863	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	357 (10 companies reporting)
3rd, 1863	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	236 (9 companies reporting)
4th, 1863	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	206 (8 companies reporting)
1st, 1864	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	178 (8 companies reporting)
2nd, 1864	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	6 (10 companies reporting)
3rd, 1864	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	5 (10 companies reporting)
4th, 1864	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	4 (10 companies reporting)

From the 4th quarter of 1862 through the 4th quarter of 1864 the 23rd was involved in the Battles of Perryville, Stone's River, Chickamauga; the Siege of Chattanooga; the Atlanta Campaign; the Battles of Franklin and Nashville; and operations in Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, and Alabama. (Dyer, III, 1207; M1281, NARA)

The 53rd did not carry Austrian arms, so I have no data on them.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[Kyle Kalasnik]

The irony with these kind of inquiries is that it presumes two things about arms issuance... both that it happens once and everybody is issued the same thing at the same time. This quote from a Civil War diary appears elsewhere on the forum but I like it because it says a lot about that in just a few sentences.

"Some of our boys got Austrian rifles, some Enfield, and others Springfield. I got the Enfield, and Bob got the finest arm of the whole lot, a fine United States Springfield rifle. Training in the use of these weapons was startlingly belated and haphazard." - Pvt. Orrin W. Cook, Company B. 22nd Regt. Massachusetts Volunteers.

I appreciate it. What a headache when it came tine to hand out ammunition.

Would you happen to an idea on how common it was for regiments to have an assortment of sitters to arms? Was it more common say for example at the beginning of the war, in outfits from certain regions / states in the western theater or is this just all over and completely random?

Thank you.

Respectfully,
Kyle Kalasnik

 

[Kyle Kalasnik]

Craig is entirely correct in his observation regarding arms issues. The 23rd was armed with the following Austrian arms. Since that is my research interest, I did not make notes on the other arms carried.

23rd Kentucky Infantry: The 23rd was organized at Louisa, Kentucky, on 20 January 1862, and was mustered out of service on 20 January 1865.

The Quarterly Ordnance Reports contain the following regarding the 23rd:

Quarter	Weapon	Caliber	Number/Comment
4th, 1862	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	309 (8 companies reporting)
1st, 1863	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	376 (10 companies reporting)
2nd, 1863	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	357 (10 companies reporting)
3rd, 1863	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	236 (9 companies reporting)
4th, 1863	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	206 (8 companies reporting)
1st, 1864	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	178 (8 companies reporting)
2nd, 1864	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	6 (10 companies reporting)
3rd, 1864	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	5 (10 companies reporting)
4th, 1864	Muster 1854, Type I	.54 and .55	4 (10 companies reporting)

From the 4th quarter of 1862 through the 4th quarter of 1864 the 23rd was involved in the Battles of Perryville, Stone's River, Chickamauga; the Siege of Chattanooga; the Atlanta Campaign; the Battles of Franklin and Nashville; and operations in Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, and Alabama. (Dyer, III, 1207; M1281, NARA)


The 53rd did not carry Austrian arms, so I have no data on them.

Regards,
Don Dixon

Thank you so much, that is a a very helpful table. I find it interesting that the number of companies varies at times. I would figure that is probably due to temporary detached duty elsewhere.

 

[Don Dixon]

I find it interesting that the number of companies varies at times. I would figure that is probably due to temporary detached duty elsewhere.

U.S. Army regulations required that commanders submit reports on the ordnance held by their units at the end of every quarter. The reports went to the War Department and the data was entered by clerks there into ledgers beginning at the end of the 3rd quarter of 1862. The ledgers for the 3rd quarter of 1862 and 1st quarter of 1865 are very incomplete. In between, not all regiments are represented, and even if a regiment was, as in the case of the 23rd Kentucky, all companies may not be listed. Detached duty, incompetence at the unit or the War Department, lost paperwork; who knows? Its more the rule than the exception. Very few units have all 10 [infantry] or 12 [cavalry and heavy artillery] companies listed in the ledgers for the entire period of their service covered by the ledgers. Since the ledgers existed, the Archives destroyed the original unit reports in the 1890s to save space. Then there is the problem of reading the clerks' handwriting in the legers.

The Confederates had a similar reporting requirement, and I know from diaries that quarterly reports were being submitted, but if the reports were compiled into similar ledgers no one has ever found them.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[Ferd454231]

In American Military Equipage by Frederick Todd and others, the 53rd was"initially issued Enfield rifle and M1842 musket, cal,69" and this was 1864-65. Todd states that the 23rd had Austrian .54 rifled muskets in 62-63 and in 64 Springfield rifles. Having said that I would defer to Mr.Dixon's take on these things. H

 

[James N.]

Thank you so much, that is a a very helpful table. I find it interesting that the number of companies varies at times. I would figure that is probably due to temporary detached duty elsewhere.

It sounds to me like you are confusing Number to mean the number of companies? (Please excuse me if I'm reading your post wrong.) At any rate, in this case Number refers to how many Austrian .54 and/or .55 rifles were on hand in the regiment. What I find interesting is that there would be as few as 4-6; why weren't ALL of them replaced? Obviously by the 2d quarter of 1864 all the rest were by then gone, replaced no doubt by .577 Enfields or .58 Springfields. I suppose possibly these few might've been in the hands of the sergeants who, although they carried rifles along with the other enlisted men, were essentially file-closers behind the firing lines who were often unengaged themselves. If that's the case, the presumably slightly shorter and lighter Austrian rifles would've probably been preferable.

 

[Kyle Kalasnik]

It sounds to me like you are confusing Number to mean the number of companies? (Please excuse me if I'm reading your post wrong.) At any rate, in this case Number refers to how many Austrian .54 and/or .55 rifles were on hand in the regiment. What I find interesting is that there would be as few as 4-6; why weren't ALL of them replaced? Obviously by the 2d quarter of 1864 all the rest were by then gone, replaced no doubt by .577 Enfields or .58 Springfields. I suppose possibly these few might've been in the hands of the sergeants who, although they carried rifles along with the other enlisted men, were essentially file-closers behind the firing lines who were often unengaged themselves. If that's the case, the presumably slightly shorter and lighter Austrian rifles would've probably been preferable.

Oh man! I really messed that up. And I even proofread my response. My apologies.

You are absolutely correct. You stated pretty much what I was trying to state.

Thank you.

Respectfully,
Kyle Kalasnik

 

[Kyle Kalasnik]

In American Military Equipage by Frederick Todd and others, the 53rd was"initially issued Enfield rifle and M1842 musket, cal,69" and this was 1864-65. Todd states that the 23rd had Austrian .54 rifled muskets in 62-63 and in 64 Springfield rifles. Having said that I would defer to Mr.Dixon's take on these things. H

Appreciate it, very helpful.

 

[James N.]

Oh man! I really messed that up. And I even proofread my response. My apologies.

You are absolutely correct. You stated pretty much what I was trying to state.

Thank you.

Respectfully,
Kyle Kalasnik

No problem, and as John Wayne famously said in one of John Ford's Cavalry Trilogy movies, "Don't apologize - it's a sign of weakness."

 

[Kyle Kalasnik]

She Wore a Yellow Ribbon? I believe.