engineers officer question

[Billy1977]

Hello everybody, before I draw an engineer officer I want to make sure I have the information correct. From what I understand, while enlisted engineers in the Union Army had yellow as their branch color for their chevrons, trouser stripes etc. the engineer officers didn't have yellow shoulder straps but rather black like staff? Is that correct? Also meaning on their dress uniform the disc at the center of their epaulettes would also be black? Many many thanks to whomever can get this straight for me.

 

[UCVRelics]

Thats a Great question I know who will know, paging @major bill

 

[JAGwinn]

Fort Color Chart of Union Army including Engineers see here:

http://howardlanham.tripod.com/color.htm

Enlisted Engineer Insignia:

Officer Engineer Insignia:

Officer Engineer Button:

Topographical (Mapping) Engineer Button:

 

[major bill]

Engineer officers use black as a branch color, had black backing on shoulder straps and gold cords on leg seams.

 

[Billy1977]

Just two more questions: which side did the engineer officer's Hardee hat loop up on? The same side as their enlisted men? And did engineer officers have a staff officer's sword when wearing their full dress uniform? Many thanks to you.

 

[Billy1977]

Is this Civil War engineers reenactors website accurate? If so it says that while the Hardee hat was looped up on the left for enlisted engineers, officers who were engineers looped it up on the right:
"Enlisted personnel should wear the enlisted (untrimmed brim) style hat. The hat will be looped up on the left side as per the March 1861 General Order... For dress purposes officers will wear an officer type M1858 Army Hat. It will be trimmed with a gold and black cord. An embroidered eagle will hold the loop of the hat up. Hat will be looped on the right for officers."
https://www.usengineerbn.net/uniform guidelines.html


If this is a accurate then I need to draw the engineer officer's Hardee hat looped up on the right side.

 

[major bill]

Is this Civil War engineers reenactors website accurate? If so it says that while the Hardee hat was looped up on the left for enlisted engineers, officers who were engineers looped it up on the right:
"Enlisted personnel should wear the enlisted (untrimmed brim) style hat. The hat will be looped up on the left side as per the March 1861 General Order... For dress purposes officers will wear an officer type M1858 Army Hat. It will be trimmed with a gold and black cord. An embroidered eagle will hold the loop of the hat up. Hat will be looped on the right for officers."
https://www.usengineerbn.net/uniform guidelines.html


If this is a accurate then I need to draw the engineer officer's Hardee hat looped up on the right side.

To me the web site seems to be correct. So yes, engineer officers turned up on the right and enlisted engineers on the left. This is for dress and in less formal uses neither officers or enlisted men would often wear the hat turned up.

 

[Package4]

Is this Civil War engineers reenactors website accurate? If so it says that while the Hardee hat was looped up on the left for enlisted engineers, officers who were engineers looped it up on the right:
"Enlisted personnel should wear the enlisted (untrimmed brim) style hat. The hat will be looped up on the left side as per the March 1861 General Order... For dress purposes officers will wear an officer type M1858 Army Hat. It will be trimmed with a gold and black cord. An embroidered eagle will hold the loop of the hat up. Hat will be looped on the right for officers."
https://www.usengineerbn.net/uniform guidelines.html


If this is a accurate then I need to draw the engineer officer's Hardee hat looped up on the right side.

Very few officers actually wore the Hardee hat, since they had to purchase their own uniforms, they wore a slouch hat for the most part.

 

[Billy1977]

Very few officers actually wore the Hardee hat, since they had to purchase their own uniforms, they wore a slouch hat for the most part.

I know but a couple days ago I already drew an engineer officer in his field uniform complete with slouch hat so I wanted to draw one in his dress uniform, so I would have one to match the engineer enlisted man in dress uniform. (My O.C.D. demanded it).

 

[Billy1977]

By the way, is the gold of the officer's trouser seam different than the yellow of the cavalry officer's trouser seam? Meaning is it metallic looking or is "gold" just the regulations' fancier way of saying "yellow"?

 

[Mike Serpa]

Civil War Engineer's Officer Button
https://historical.ha.com/itm/milit...6074-52617.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Early Engineer's Button
https://historical.ha.com/itm/milit.../659-25616.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

[Package4]

By the way, is the gold of the officer's trouser seam different than the yellow of the cavalry officer's trouser seam? Meaning is it metallic looking or is "gold" just the regulations' fancier way of saying "yellow"?

Gold

 

[Ray Ball]

Hello everybody, before I draw an engineer officer I want to make sure I have the information correct. From what I understand, while enlisted engineers in the Union Army had yellow as their branch color for their chevrons, trouser stripes etc. the engineer officers didn't have yellow shoulder straps but rather black like staff? Is that correct? Also meaning on their dress uniform the disc at the center of their epaulettes would also be black? Many many thanks to whomever can get this straight for me.

You are correct. I can't wait to see the results!

 

[Ray Ball]

Just two more questions: which side did the engineer officer's Hardee hat loop up on? The same side as their enlisted men? And did engineer officers have a staff officer's sword when wearing their full dress uniform? Many thanks to you.

That's an interesting question. The answer, I believe, depends on the date. In March of 63 there were two updates regarding the hardee hats. For more, check our website as we reenact the US Engineer Bn. http://www.usengineerbn.net or http://www.civilwarengineers.com

 

[Ray Ball]

By the way, is the gold of the officer's trouser seam different than the yellow of the cavalry officer's trouser seam? Meaning is it metallic looking or is "gold" just the regulations' fancier way of saying "yellow"?

It is metallic gold, not the yellow as in cavalry or enlisted NCO stripes

 

[Ray Ball]

Is this Civil War engineers reenactors website accurate? If so it says that while the Hardee hat was looped up on the left for enlisted engineers, officers who were engineers looped it up on the right:
"Enlisted personnel should wear the enlisted (untrimmed brim) style hat. The hat will be looped up on the left side as per the March 1861 General Order... For dress purposes officers will wear an officer type M1858 Army Hat. It will be trimmed with a gold and black cord. An embroidered eagle will hold the loop of the hat up. Hat will be looped on the right for officers."
https://www.usengineerbn.net/uniform guidelines.html


If this is a accurate then I need to draw the engineer officer's Hardee hat looped up on the right side.

I should add that our unit uses the uniform guidelines of the early war. As I mentioned they were rewritten later.

 

[Billy1977]

I hate to bug you all but one more question: Here is a pair of shoulder straps from the Topographical Engineers

To me the background color looks dark blue. Now is this something that started out in the 1860s as black and has since faded in 150+ years? Or is it representative of its original color?

 

[Ray Ball]

Please note that the regulations call for a "dark blue" for Engineer officers. Also, while I've seen it on many reenactors, there is no castle in the strap for Engineer officers. For topographic engineer officers that may be different but that is not my area. For the best resources on the Topographic Engineers contact Don Erickson via FaceBook and for Engineers 1SGDan here. They are the very best resources for these areas.
If it is of any assistance I have attached a link to the uniform regulations of 1861.

 

[Ray Ball]

I hate to bug you all but one more question: Here is a pair of shoulder straps from the Topographical Engineers
View attachment 293249
To me the background color looks dark blue. Now is this something that started out in the 1860s as black and has since faded in 150+ years? Or is it representative of its original color?

While these are likely from the Civil War era, I believe they are a non-regulation version. I would contact Don Erickson for more information. He is a member of a FB page I admin dedicated to 19th Century military engineering. Check "Essayons" on FB. Ask to become a member and I'll approve you when I see it. The folks there will give you more information that you ever wanted.

 

[Billy1977]

Please note that the regulations call for a "dark blue" for Engineer officers.

Hmmmm. So what is the consensus here? Should my engineer officer shoulder straps really be dark blue, like the same shade as the coat it's attached to? Regarding the castles on the regular engineer shoulder straps, since they were all private purchase would some have had the castles?