Enfield P-56 and P-58 differences

[Mr King]

What were the differences between the Enfield short rifle P-56 and the P-58 rifle and which were more preferred and used? Is it true that the Federal Navy marines were armed with the P-56? Was it the P-56 or the P-58 more like the Mississippi rifle?

 

[67th Tigers]

The P58 had a heavier barrel with 5 grooves with a 1 in 48 progressive twist. It was sighted upto 1,250 yds.

The P56 had a lighter barrel with 3 grooves with a 1 in 78 progressive twist. It was sighted upto 1,100 yds. It was a pound lighter the the P58.

Both are "short rifles," being 4 ft 0.5 in (11 in shorter than the musket). The P56 was designed for British sharpshooters and sergeants, whereas the P58 was for Marines and the Navy.

 

[Mr King]

The P58 had a heavier barrel with 5 grooves with a 1 in 48 progressive twist. It was sighted upto 1,250 yds.

The P56 had a lighter barrel with 3 grooves with a 1 in 78 progressive twist. It was sighted upto 1,100 yds. It was a pound lighter the the P58.

Both are "short rifles," being 4 ft 0.5 in (11 in shorter than the musket). The P56 was designed for British sharpshooters and sergeants, whereas the P58 was for Marines and the Navy.

Ahh! Thank you 67th Tigers!

 

[Old Soldier]

In those days there were two, completely separate fighting forces with their own management and procurement systems. The Royal Navy was ruled from The Admiralty, completely separate from the Board of Ordnance/War Office. There was no cross-service agreement on equipment and supply. They drew up their own specifications and weapons trials.

The Army already had the P53 in it's different forms - the 'long' rifle, the artillery carbine and the cavalry carbine. The RN trialed them and found the 'long' rifle - too long(!) and the artillery carbine too short for use on a warship. They set up their own trials and developed the new 48" progressive rifling to make their short rifle more accurate than the carbine, especially in windy conditions. (They also got a 'cutlass' bayonet for boarding partys too!)

The Army was happy with a shorter - two band - version of the long rifle for issue to sergeants. (Cheaper!) The later, mis-named 'musketoon' of 1861 also adopted the 48" rifling twist The actual title was 'Artillery Carbine Pattern 1861'. The 'musketoon' name was given to it by - the Navy! The Smithsonian defines it as: ..... a short blunderbuss, or wide barrel muzzle-loading shotgun with a flared muzzle. IOW - not a rifle!! They were commonly used by pirate boarding partys - hence the RN term.

To answer the second question - neither. The Mississippi rifle (M1841) was a .54 bore with 7-groove rifling. The P56 had 3-groove and the P58, 5-groove They were also much younger in design and were designed for their respective bayonets. (The original Mississippi was not).

The P53 and P56 were popular Volunteer rifles - bought from civilian sources by the volunteers, not issued. This demand ensured the supply of rifles to both sides in the Civil War, but the quality and interchangability of these civilian weapons were not up to Admiralty/War Office standards.

 

[johan_steele]

The P58 naval rifle was certainly a different critter. I've handled and fired a P56 and owned a P58 Sgts Fusil intended for Sepoy useage. The assorted short Enfields are a different beast than the M1841. Personally I prefer the stock of the M1841. I completion shot with a Colt Alteration M1841 for years and adored it. I certainly preferred it to the P53. If given the choice between a P56 or P58 vs a P53 I'd not hesitate to trade away the P53.

The men of the day made their preference quite clear when there is no example of a unit passing up the opportunity to trade in P53's for Springfields. There are examples of units opting to keep M1841 when given the opportunity to trade for P53.

There is the example of the 4th MN when given the opportunity to trade their M1841 for "short Enfields" they opted to keep their M1841's as they were rather unimpressed. I'm willing to wager those were P56 instead of P58 due to the timeframe being Vicksburg. Those men at least preferred the M1841.

The men of the CS certainly preferred the short Enfield over every other offering. Their access to .58 M1841 was more limited so I don't know how much that influenced things.

 

[Craig L Barry]

As I have noted in previous posts on this subject, The P58s were very good rifles, but they did not have much US Civil War provenance. Of the hundreds of thousands of Enfield rifless which were imported by both sides, very few were the P58 Naval pattern.

 

[Old Soldier]

As I have noted in previous posts on this subject, The P58s were very good rifles, but they did not have much US Civil War provenance. Of the hundreds of thousands of Enfield rifless which were imported by both sides, very few were the P58 Naval pattern.

As I mentioned previously, this was because they were not issue rifles. The Volunteers were the reason for the civilian production of P53 and P56. There were also shooting competitions up to 1000 yards(!) so there may well have been some good rifles produced, but most were for display only really - if it LOOKED good... The best were the Whitworths with the Whitworth rifling, but they cost a lot.

No government weapons were sent as that would indicate support and bias. The government did not want to get involved. Those that did appear seem to have been old Type 2s (band springs) that had been sold out of service and marked as such (opposing WD arrows (-X-) and usually bearing a civilian proof stamping on the barrel.

The barrels for export rifles were obtained from a few sources, and the cheapest - and easily available - were for the older 78", 3-groove system. Very, very few bear any government inspectors marks and those that do are mainly lock components such as bridles - spares. The best civilian rifles were those made by the London Armoury Company which were very close to Enfield standards. The Confederates got to the L.A.C. first and they were the ones who got the best Enfields. The L.A.C. closed for business in 1866 and most of the people went on to form the London Small Arms Company.

All the London Armoury locks are stamped L.A.C. but have no inspectors stamps.

 

[Mr King]

Whoa! A lot of great info that I didn't know, thank you all for teaching and sharing!