Eastern Vs Western Theaters

[footeghost]

Growing up and learning in school or watching tv or just any information heard always was about the East and it's Personalities. Jackson, Lee, Stuart, McLellan these were and still remain household names. I never new about anything in the west untill took a class in college and it has become my favorite area to study. Why does it seem the west to be a stepchild generaly speaking in the basic study of the war? More important? personalities? what? Ben

 

[K Hale]

Farther from the seat(s) of national government(s), and farther from the major media centers on the eastern seaboard.

 

[Nytram01]

The simple reason is that the East is more romantic. In the East you have the "brave outnumbered Confederates defeating larger Union Armies time and again until they are finally overwhelmed" while in the West the Confederates never get any real successes until Chickamagua. There just isn't a lot of romantic glory to be found in the West so the appeal of studying a theater where the Union started out on top and remained on top for the duration isn't very high.

 

[ole]

Miss Hale said about all there is to say: No significant newspapers in the west.

While Lee was racking up victories, nobody paid much attention ti the thousands of square miles the Confederacy was losing in the west. Nothing really exciting there. But every mile the western armies took was another notch in the belt of the eastern Reb.

The Shenandoah Valley has been called the bread basket of the AoNV. But at full production, it could not meet the need. In the later days of Petersburg, the Reb was on 1/8 rations. When you figure that one could lose weight on a full ration, there is handwriting on the wall.

 

[M E Wolf]

I think this can explain on the best of days, the length of time it took to get news:

From Manassas to Appottamox (Longstreet)
Chapter II.—From New Mexico To Manassas.

The War-Cloud—The Journey Northward—Appointed Brigadier-Gen-eral-Report to General Beauregard—Assigned to Command at the Scene of the First Conflict—Personnel of the Confronting Forces—Description of the Field of Manassas, or Bull Run—Beauregard and McDowell of the same West Point Class—Battle of Blackburn's Ford—Early's Mistake—Under Fire of Friend and Foe.

I was stationed at Albuquerque, New Mexico, as paymaster in the United States army when the war-cloud appeared in the East. Officers of the Northern and Southern States were anxious to see the portending storm pass by or disperse, and on many occasions we, too, were assured, by those who claimed to look into the future, that the statesman would yet show himself equal to the occasion, and restore confidence among the people. Our mails were due semi-monthly, but during winter seasons we were glad to have them once a month, and occasionally had to be content with once in six weeks. When mail-day came the officers usually assembled on the fiat roof of the quartermaster's office to look for the dust that in that arid climate announced the coming mail-wagon when five or ten miles away; but affairs continued to grow gloomy, and eventually came information of the attack upon and capture of Fort Sumter by the Confederate forces, which put down speculation and drew the long-dreaded line.

number of officers of the post called to persuade me to remain in the Union service. Captain Gibbs, of the Mounted Rifles, was the principal talker, and after a long but pleasant discussion, I asked him what course he would pursue if his State should pass ordinances of secession and call him to its defence. He confessed that he would obey the call.

It was a sad day when we took leave of lifetime comrades and gave up a service of twenty years. Neither Union officers nor their families made efforts to conceal feelings of deepest regret. When we drove out from the post, a number of officers rode with us, which only made the last farewell more trying.

[excerpt]
---------------------
Reading of Longstreet's travel, he was already on the move before getting news that his resignation from the U.S. Army's officer's commission took effect as of June 1st, 1861 and didn't reach Richmond's War Department until June 29th, 1861. (And Longstreet took the swiftest route to get there).

Other then the telegraph -- news and mail would most likely be on stage-coaches or mail express on horses, e.g. Pony Express.

Passing through Indian territory and gangs of thieves, it is amazing that it took that short of time. Especially today with our rush hours around Washington, DC.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

 

[Elennsar]

Don't forget a lack of writings after the war in the West vs. the swarms of books by guys who fought in the East.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Don't forget a lack of writings after the war in the West vs. the swarms of books by guys who fought in the East.

I get the impression you may not have looked very hard. Lots of western writers, perhaps too many.

 

[johan_steele]

I get the impression you may not have looked very hard. Lots of western writers, perhaps too many.

I think there as many if not more accounts from the west right after the war. Some of the most influential were certainly westerners. Sam Watkins comes first to mind w/ Grants memoirs as well as Shermans. But there are a host of others. Beaty of the AoC comes first to mind. There is a LOT of literature published 1866-1880. Depends upon where you look.

 

[Elennsar]

I get the impression you may not have looked very hard. Lots of western writers, perhaps too many.

But much more in the east.

Who dominated the Southern Historical Society? It wasn't vets of the Army of Tennessee.

I'm not trying to dismiss the writings of those who did write in the West, but the triumphs of the ANV were trumpeted long after Apomattox.

 

[brass napoleon]

I agree with all the above, and will add that the East had R. E. Lee. Love him or hate him, he made war interesting. Just think if he had gone to Vicksburg instead of Gettysburg. The West would have got some attention then.

But the war was definitely won (or lost, depending on viewpoint) in the West.

 

[Elennsar]

I agree with all the above, and will add that the East had R. E. Lee. Love him or hate him, he made war interesting. Just think if he had gone to Vicksburg instead of Gettysburg. The West would have got some attention then.

But the war was definitely won (or lost, depending on viewpoint) in the West.

The problem I have with that is "the West" winds up being defined as everything that isn't Virginia.

Saying the war was won in the West is like saying WWI was won in Europe.

That's not to say that Vicksburg, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Fort Donelson (the decisive ones I can think of offhand) weren't a big deal. They were a darn big deal.

But its not for lack of trying on the part of the men of the Army of the Potomac that the Army of the Tennessee and the Army of the Cumberland captured the majority of the Confederacy.

 

[dvrmte]

That's not to say that Vicksburg, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Fort Donelson (the decisive ones I can think of offhand) weren't a big deal. They were a darn big deal.

They were the decisive ones but Chickamauga and Shiloh get more press. They were the bloody ones.

But its not for lack of trying on the part of the men of the Army of the Potomac that the Army of the Tennessee and the Army of the Cumberland captured the majority of the Confederacy.

Not enough bloody battles involved in the captures as above. The bloody ones such as Mufreesboro, Franklin, Chickamauga, and Perryville weren't the decisive ones.

Even in losing to Grant, Lee and the ANV won the majority of engagements against him. Grant just had the manpower and tenacity to keep coming after him and eventually did the winning when it was important.

dvrmte

 

[brass napoleon]

Not enough bloody battles involved in the captures as above. The bloody ones such as Mufreesboro, Franklin, Chickamauga, and Perryville weren't the decisive ones.

Even in losing to Grant, Lee and the ANV won the majority of engagements against him. Grant just had the manpower and tenacity to keep coming after him and eventually did the winning when it was important.

dvrmte

And even then, one of the main factors in Lee's defeat was the events of the Western theater - vast food supplies being cut off from him and massive desertions from men going to the aid of their starving families.

The problem I have with that is "the West" winds up being defined as everything that isn't Virginia.

Saying the war was won in the West is like saying WWI was won in Europe.

That's not to say that Vicksburg, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Fort Donelson (the decisive ones I can think of offhand) weren't a big deal. They were a darn big deal.

I've always thought it kind of funny how Georgia and the Carolinas end up being called the West. But I actually think that once Vicksburg and Chattanooga fell it was a done deal.

 

[DWMack]

Not enough bloody battles involved in the captures as above. The bloody ones such as Mufreesboro, Franklin, Chickamauga, and Perryville weren't the decisive ones.

Even in losing to Grant, Lee and the ANV won the majority of engagements against him. Grant just had the manpower and tenacity to keep coming after him and eventually did the winning when it was important.

dvrmte

"Lee and the ANV won the majority of engagements against him."


uh.....are we putting "indecisive - Grant keeps moving" in Lee's win column?

 

[dvrmte]

"Lee and the ANV won the majority of engagements against him."


uh.....are we putting "indecisive - Grant keeps moving" in Lee's win column?

Well Grant moved on because he couldn't do anything with Lee at Wilderness, Spotsylvania, and Cold Harbor. All he would have got if he hadn't moved on was more casualties.

dvrmte

 

[johan_steele]

Anything west of the Appalachians was considered the west. As to the Southern Historical people post war. They had to focus on the East as there just wasn't anything they could spin to make themselves feel good outside of Virginia & the ANV. Those people west of that locale had better things to do than whine, complain, rewrite history. There were crops to be put in, cattle to be seen to etc. Wheras the original in the Southern Historical movements, were rather well off even after the supposed devestation wrought by Sherman. In fact a certain level of wealth was a requirement for the Daughters of the Confederacy. I read an interesting note the other day, true or not I do not know: All but one of the founding members of the DoC were very wealthy and had come from familes quite familiar and involved in the institution of slavery.

That kind of bias and agenda inherrent in such a system is why you get the very first outright lies to smear US soldiers and the distinct feeling after reading their drek that the Lee held off the US in Virginia with nothing but a one armed Sgt and his staff. There was certainly a distinctive pro Virginia crowd that concentrated on Virginia being the heart & soul of the CS to the expense of any other viewpoint. Heck if you read that drek you get the distinct impression the CS really won the war and just changed its name to the US.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Anything west of the Appalachians was considered the west. As to the Southern Historical people post war. They had to focus on the East as there just wasn't anything they could spin to make themselves feel good outside of Virginia & the ANV. Those people west of that locale had better things to do than whine, complain, rewrite history. There were crops to be put in, cattle to be seen to etc. Wheras the original in the Southern Historical movements, were rather well off even after the supposed devestation wrought by Sherman. In fact a certain level of wealth was a requirement for the Daughters of the Confederacy. I read an interesting note the other day, true or not I do not know: All but one of the founding members of the DoC were very wealthy and had come from familes quite familiar and involved in the institution of slavery.

That kind of bias and agenda inherrent in such a system is why you get the very first outright lies to smear US soldiers and the distinct feeling after reading their drek that the Lee held off the US in Virginia with nothing but a one armed Sgt and his staff. There was certainly a distinctive pro Virginia crowd that concentrated on Virginia being the heart & soul of the CS to the expense of any other viewpoint. Heck if you read that drek you get the distinct impression the CS really won the war and just changed its name to the US.

I chuckled a bit over your last sentence. I recall that with the political maneuvering during reconstruction what you suggest is pretty much what occurred. Political parties flopped and the southern states renewed their clout.

 

[DWMack]

Well Grant moved on because he couldn't do anything with Lee at Wilderness, Spotsylvania, and Cold Harbor. All he would have got if he hadn't moved on was more casualties.

dvrmte

well if anything, those are strategic victories for Grant (Minus of course Cold Harbor). Certainly not victories for Lee unless you mean prolonging the inevitable.

 

[Southland]

well if anything, those are strategic victories for Grant (Minus of course Cold Harbor). Certainly not victories for Lee unless you mean prolonging the inevitable.

I don't know what you mean by strategic victories. His plan was to destory the Confederate Army which he didn't until lee gave up.

Wonder why folks talk about Grant's failures they don't mention North Anna?

 

[Elennsar]

And even then, one of the main factors in Lee's defeat was the events of the Western theater - vast food supplies being cut off from him and massive desertions from men going to the aid of their starving families.

Not sure how much of his food supplies came from the west. I know Tennessee earlier had been raided to supply Lee, I'm not sure where his rations were coming from in '64.

I've always thought it kind of funny how Georgia and the Carolinas end up being called the West. But I actually think that once Vicksburg and Chattanooga fell it was a done deal.

I agree. The Confederacy winning from the 1864 position would require much better leadership on its part or worse on the Union part or both before even threatening to upset the Union war effort.

Lincoln might lose the election from short of that, but the war's outcome won't change.