Museum Do museums over do weapons?

[DixieRifles]

I'm not sure that the adults here would agree on what " fully understand the history of the Civil War" means either.

Well, I don't think anyone knows it "fully". I was referring to the general knowledge that the States split apart and that battles were fought in every state for over 4 years.

I always remember a 5th Grader's reply when asked Why were they fighting in this town: Answer-- I don't know.

 

[major bill]

Are you sure the primary group that visits this museum is 3rd, 4th & 5th Graders? I understand how schools will use local museums as a field trip for their children. However, from my experience that only happens once a year and by only a few of the schools. I've also learned that the majority of the children don't fully understand the history of the Civil War as it is barely covered in their classes. It seems hard to believe the Museum Staff would design their gallery around this group.

Another comment suggested that less items are better. I agree there are some museums that are cluttered with items everywhere. That is distracting to most of the public. Of course, for most people in CTW, we would look at every item we could. The opposite extreme is to have fewer items no display and more written history. When I attended the Holocaust Museum in DC, I was frustrated trying to read all the text. People were bumping into each other as the shorter or elderly folks tried to position themselves so they could better read it. Further into the exhibit, this seemed to have improved as there were more items to view.

Because Lansing is the State capital many schools come to visit the Capital building and State Museum. Before COVID, on weekdays, the Michigan History Museum had large numbers of school groups. The Museum got so many requests that the went from a school group ever half hour to a school group every 15 minutes, and still turned down requests. In addition to these visits their were some schools that did two or even three day visits. On some days with two seperate classes doing two day tours and 6 or more other school groups in the building at the same time, things could get hectic. At the time I would not have suggested tours from senior citizens groups to come on weekdays in months schools are in session. Sadly grade school classes that have spent two or three hour on buses can have energy to expend.

We use to also offer special one hour classes. I did the one hour Civil War class which was broken down in to 30 minutes about Civil War music and 30 minutes of Civil War medicine. It took four docents to give these hour long classes. Although popular with the schools, these hour long Civil War classes were eliminated because the Civil War is not a major part of the State Education Guidence for 3rd to 5th grades.

We also get high school and college student groups and a few middle school groups. We also get special visits from exchange student groups.

 

[DixieRifles]

Although popular with the schools, these hour long Civil War classes were eliminated because the Civil War is not a major part of the State Education Guidence for 3rd to 5th grades.

Our little museum provided field trips for 5th Graders. Then they changed and moved the Civil War history to the 4th Grade level. We had to change our presentation some and have someone to help with discipline---even though the teachers and a few parents participated.

Now the plan is to give field trips for 3rd graders. I seriously have doubts if I can communicate much to this grade level. Yet! I have to remember that I fell in love with Civil War history around this age.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Trouble is, If you do not know how they thought and what they believed in, you cannot understand them, their motives or actions. Understanding their beliefs is not forcing anything on anyone. Most of these 'myths' were a way of explaining things they could not understand and did not have the knowledge to explain.

I think we should definitely acknowledge what they believed (I said as much in my post), but it needs to be presented as what they believed, not as fact. From Bill's comments, and from a recent book (Saving Yellowstone), there's clearly a push in some places to portay those beliefs as factual. I don't simply mean oral traditions; obvious supernatural mythology.

 

[major bill]

From Bill's comments, and from a recent book (Saving Yellowstone), there's clearly a push in some places to portay those beliefs as factual.

I am not sure the Museum pushes them as facts. We work with the First People groups of Michigan and try to respect their religions and their beliefs. For example how humans came to the United States is not a subject we talk about. The true facts of how humans came to the Americas are still in question and the origin of people in the Americas is part of some First People's religious beliefs. Because the Michigan History Museum is all about Michigan History, how the first humans came to the Americas is not in our area of study. The Museum opens up with the Ice Age and goes from there.

 

[debwallsmith]

Some people believe weapons are the best way to interrupt the Civil War. Let me look a bit deeper in to the weapons issue. The Michigan History Museum does cover 15,000 years of Michigan history. Should weapons be the major focus in most galleries?

I will use two galleries as examples. The gallery covering the Michigan Fur Trade era does not have many weapons, while the next gallery which covers the cooperation and conflict between the First People and Eupoeans has a cannon and other weapons. Should the gallery covering European early contact and the fur trade look for a large number of weapons to replace the canoe and other displays?

Next, should the 1960s room replace the space race displays with weapons from the Vietnam War? Maybe ditch the Motown display and replace it with weapons from the Veitnam War?

What should be the focus of Michigan history from both the fur trade era and the 1960s? School children and adults might find tVietnam era weapons more fun than Stevie Wonder's piano. The space race is old news and these displays could be replaced with M16s and such.

Perhaps the Civil War is best interrupt through weapon while other eras are best interrupted through other artifacts?

Please don't highjack this thread by going in to modern politics, but stay focused on why a large display of weapons is the best way to explain the Civil War.

Maybe it's up to the professionals at the Michigan History Museum to decide how the story is told and which artifacts in the collection are relevant to that story. They will have guidelines for meeting educational standards as well as input from the state historical society and others who are experts on Michigan history. You seem to imply that an exhibit is lacking if there aren't lots of weapons. People who make their livings creating museum exhibits will disagree. An exhibit that has dozens or more similar items does NOT tell a story unless it's all of the canes that were gifts to FDR (he used crutches not canes) or the shoe exhibit at the Holocaust Museum. What story does 20 swords or 20 1861 Springfields tell? Remember that the Michigan History Museum is dedicated to telling the story of all Michigan history. You want to see lots of Civil War weaponry? Maybe you should visit the Michigan Military Heritage Museum.

 

[debwallsmith]

I am not sure the Museum pushes them as facts. We work with the First People groups of Michigan and try to respect their religions and their beliefs. For example how humans came to the United States is not a subject we talk about. The true facts of how humans came to the Americas are still in question and the origin of people in the Americas is part of some First People's religious beliefs. Because the Michigan History Museum is all about Michigan History, how the first humans came to the Americas is not in our area of study. The Museum opens up with the Ice Age and goes from there.

Try to respect their religions and their beliefs? You mean First Nations groups aren't given the lead on those stories/exhibits? I would suggest that the peopling of the Americas isn't part of the scope of the museum but that the peopling of what is now Michigan is.

 

[major bill]

Maybe you should visit the Michigan Military Heritage Museum.

I will be going back next month. So that no one gets confused the Michigan Military Heritage Museum has weapons but they focus on uniforms. Should I take some photos next month and share them? Most photos would not show Civil War items.

 

[major bill]

Try to respect their religions and their beliefs? You mean First Nations groups aren't given the lead on those stories/exhibits?

Yes they are given the right to input. The small display cases in the side room are all empty because the First People Nation groups are helping us decide what we can display and what should be said about the items. So far this has been over a five year project and the display cases are still bare. It is nearly impossible to get 12 sperate First People Nations to be unanimous about almost anything. For those not overly familiar with the First People of Michigan, some of them were sworn enemies for centuries. There has been some painting done and some new cases in the side room, so perhaps some progress is being made. Maybe another year or two?

 

[Old Soldier]

I think we should definitely acknowledge what they believed (I said as much in my post), but it needs to be presented as what they believed, not as fact.

I think someone has a rather strange way or presenting that information, however, an increasing number are returning to their ancient beliefs and it is a recognized religion (Congress - American Indian Religious Freedom Act 1978), so it will depend on whom the information is targeted. Not everyone is atheist or neutral to religions other than their own. I would still like to know what they thought about the Civil War.

 

[archieclement]

Yes they are given the right to input. The small display cases in the side room are all empty because the First People Nation groups are helping us decide what we can display and what should be said about the items. So far this has been over a five year project and the display cases are still bare. It is nearly impossible to get 12 sperate First People Nations to be unanimous about almost anything. For those not overly familiar with the First People of Michigan, some of them were sworn enemies for centuries. There has been some painting done and some new cases in the side room, so perhaps some progress is being made. Maybe another year or two?

Which of the twelve "first nations" is the supposed first nation?

 

[Old Soldier]

Which of the twelve "first nations" is the supposed first nation?

Does it matter? They were here before we arrived. It's like trying to get a precise history of Western Europe before the Romans arrived. They still argue about it today! It comes as a bit of a surprise to some that Charlemagne was a Frank and was really called 'Karl' and he spoke a Germanic dialect. He wasn't 'French' at all. (German for France is 'Frankreich' - 'the kingdom of the Franks'.)

 

[major bill]

I think someone has a rather strange way or presenting that information, however, an increasing number are returning to their ancient beliefs and it is a recognized religion (Congress - American Indian Religious Freedom Act 1978), so it will depend on whom the information is targeted. Not everyone is atheist or neutral to religions other than their own. I would still like to know what they thought about the Civil War.

Most of the First People who went off to fight in the Civil War were probably Christians, many were Catholic but others not. Some First People mixed Christainiy with First People traditional religious beliefs. There were some First People serving as Michigan soldier who followed their traditional ways. I would guess different Michigan First People held different views of the Civil War.

I live with in five miles of the First People cultural and history museum in Mt. Pleasant, Mi. and that Museum does not really much cover Michigan First People during the Civil War. It does have some nice books on the subject in the gift store.

 

[Kurt G]

First Nations information gets very confusing . In Michigan all of the current federally recognized bands are Odawa , Chippewa or Pottawatomie or combinations of these . They refer to themselves as the Council of the Three Fires and have cultural similarities . They are also called the Anishinabe , but other tribes who are not part of the council are part of this as well . Historically some Chippewas claimed Mackinac Island is where the earth was created , but not all agree . Each band had it's own leaders historically and some bands at times fought each other . I've been interested in this part of my states history for many years and can understand how the various bands may have trouble coming to a historical consensus , but I hope they can come together for the museum .

 

[major bill]

First Nations information gets very confusing . In Michigan all of the current federally recognized bands are Odawa , Chippewa or Pottawatomie or combinations of these . They refer to themselves as the Council of the Three Fires and have cultural similarities . They are also called the Anishinabe , but other tribes who are not part of the council are part of this as well . Historically some Chippewas claimed Mackinac Island is where the earth was created , but not all agree . Each band had it's own leaders historically and some bands at times fought each other . I've been interested in this part of my states history for many years and can understand how the various bands may have trouble coming to a historical consensus , but I hope they can come together for the museum .

The Museum also works with the Wyandot people of Michigan. The Wyandotes are working on a cullteral center/museum near Wyandotte, Mi. I have not seen any Menominee, Fox, or Maimi peoples at the Michigan History Museum but because they have items on display they probably should be consulted as well.

 

[archieclement]

Does it matter? They were here before we arrived. It's like trying to get a precise history of Western Europe before the Romans arrived. They still argue about it today! It comes as a bit of a surprise to some that Charlemagne was a Frank and was really called 'Karl' and he spoke a Germanic dialect. He wasn't 'French' at all. (German for France is 'Frankreich' - 'the kingdom of the Franks'.)

It should matter if one was actually the first nation, or if one found the concept of first nations historically important.

That it doesn't matter as your question implies , would indeed go to how silly it is to present them as the "first nations". Especially since archaeology evidence doesn't support historical era tribes having ever been first nations, despite verbal lore or mythology.

Should the "lost cause" be presented as mainstream based on it simply has a verbal lore and some number of adherents, probably as many remain as the 1.7% of Americans who are native americans, not all of whom still subscribe to tribal lore and mythology today?

 

[debwallsmith]

Yes they are given the right to input. The small display cases in the side room are all empty because the First People Nation groups are helping us decide what we can display and what should be said about the items. So far this has been over a five year project and the display cases are still bare. It is nearly impossible to get 12 sperate First People Nations to be unanimous about almost anything. For those not overly familiar with the First People of Michigan, some of them were sworn enemies for centuries. There has been some painting done and some new cases in the side room, so perhaps some progress is being made. Maybe another year or two?

And it is up to them to come to a consensus. This is not unique. There are 3 federally recognized Cherokee tribes and 5 Creek tribes. We need to work on their time not ours.

 

[debwallsmith]

Yes they are given the right to input. The small display cases in the side room are all empty because the First People Nation groups are helping us decide what we can display and what should be said about the items. So far this has been over a five year project and the display cases are still bare. It is nearly impossible to get 12 sperate First People Nations to be unanimous about almost anything. For those not overly familiar with the First People of Michigan, some of them were sworn enemies for centuries. There has been some painting done and some new cases in the side room, so perhaps some progress is being made. Maybe another year or two?

Maybe part of the problem is that their heritage has been consigned to small display cases in side rooms?

 

[major bill]

So kind of back to my original question. The Michigan Historical Museum will be redesigning The "Civil War" Gallery. What should be done to update it?
1. Less weapons more story?
2. Because most of out visitors are grade school children, add some hands on activities?
3. Because it covers the Underground Railway as well as Abolitionists in Michigan, change the large title painted over the entry to something like "The Underground Railroad, Slavery, and the Civil War'?
4. The children love the old diorama but the docents and staff hate it. So add a nice new diorama?

 

[Kurt G]

1. More story with basic weapons displayed . Don't display multiples of the same kind .
2.Yes
3.No. "The Civil War , Slavery and the Underground Railroad" in that order.
4. If the children love it I'd say leave it . It might make an impression on them . Add a new one if you have the funds but still make it interesting for the children .