Discipline after combat

[War Horse]

I've read of several incidents (Longstreet's wounding at the Wilderness is one that hasn't yet been mentioned), but haven't read about anyone being held accountable. In other words, if there were repercussions for the shooter(s), the word hasn't made it into any of the books I've read so far.

Longstreet's wounding is a classic example of being caught between the lines. The men doing the firing without doubt thought they were firing at the enemy. However, as in all wars the opportunity was present and to say it never happened would be naive. I'm sure it has happened and unless the individual was stupid enough to announce he contemplated it or drunk enough to admit to having done it, we will never no. It does however surprise me that no confirmed accounts have actually been recorded that we are aware of.

 

[War Horse]

Let's not forget either that the confederate uniform was anything but uniform. I have read several accounts of soldiers, even officers riding into enemy troops asking what division is this and when the answer was given. Well let's just say they turned and rode away very causally to say the least.

 

[Waterloo50]

Documents weren't classified like that back then. There are incidents of friendly fire from nearly every battle in both the official records and in private correspondence.

R

Hi,
I didn't really mean classified as we would understand it to day, I guess what I should have said is, brushed under the carpet or covered up.

 

[Reb]

It likely happened in every battle. Several instances are reported at Gettysburg, on both sides. It was commonly the result of friendly artillery firing into their own infantry: either from a case of mistaken identity; or the infantry advancing into the existing fire zone; or faulty ammunition; or obscured conditions (such as darkness). Fellow infantrymen firing well behind the front line was another cause, but during a pitched battle it would difficult to pinpoint the culprit. Two examples:

USA: When shells from batteries in the rear began dropping into the 20th Connecticut at daybreak on July 3, taking both arms off Private George Warner, an angry Colonel William Wooster sent back word that if it continued he would turn his men around and charge them. Wooster omits mention of the incident in his official report, but his brigade commander, Col. A. L. McDougall writes that the regiment endured "an afflictive and discouraging, though accidental, fire of our own batteries."

CSA: General Stephen Ramseur mentioned an incident in his official report ... "exposed to the artillery of the enemy and our own short-range guns, by the careless use or imperfect ammunition of which I lost 7 men killed and wounded." As a result, Capt. Dance's artillery battalion, which had apparently inflicted the damage, was restricted to firing only the safer solid shot.

So far as is known, no one was held to account for these apparently unintentional acts.

Wow................ I read this, saw the name "Dance" and had to start some digging. My 3rd great grandmother was Anna Hinton Dance. Come to find out I am a second cousin to Willis Jefferson Dance, in command of this artillery battalion. Kind of eerie.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=103695021
https://d38ls2kcjnhfdj.cloudfront.net/74bbb5bf-df93-4404-8017-de523f5bf567.JPG

 

[Waterloo50]

Wow................ I read this, saw the name "Dance" and had to start some digging. My 3rd great grandmother was Anna Hinton Dance. Come to find out I am a second cousin to Willis Jefferson Dance, in command of this artillery battalion. Kind of eerie.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=103695021
https://d38ls2kcjnhfdj.cloudfront.net/74bbb5bf-df93-4404-8017-de523f5bf567.JPG

The decision to order Captain Dance to use solid shot only, feels like an injustice. General Ramseur stated, 'exposed to the artillery of the enemy and our own short-range guns, by the careless use or imperfect ammunition of which I lost 7 men killed and wounded."

There is no possible way that he would have known who fired the shot(s) that killed 7 of his men, unless of course he witnessed the shell leaving the gun from Captain Dance's position. To use the term 'careless use' would imply that Captain Dance and his men were firing indiscriminately. If the shell(s) that killed and wounded the 7 men did come from Captain Dance, It is more than likely that they were defective shells, which was quite common for that period.

tmh10 has written a nice piece on Field Artillery in the Civil War 'There were stories of troops being hit by shells fired by their own side which burst prematurely, and that no doubt happened. Many times it was the sabot, a piece of the rifling band or just a piece which broke off the shell as the cannon fired which struck those troops. Many recovered Parrott projectiles have pieces broken off at the base, attributed to the force of being fired.

I feel better now because I have defended your relative, Captain Dance.

 

[Reb]

The decision to order Captain Dance to use solid shot only, feels like an injustice. General Ramseur stated, 'exposed to the artillery of the enemy and our own short-range guns, by the careless use or imperfect ammunition of which I lost 7 men killed and wounded."

There is no possible way that he would have known who fired the shot(s) that killed 7 of his men, unless of course he witnessed the shell leaving the gun from Captain Dance's position. To use the term 'careless use' would imply that Captain Dance and his men were firing indiscriminately. If the shell(s) that killed and wounded the 7 men did come from Captain Dance, It is more than likely that they were defective shells, which was quite common for that period.

tmh10 has written a nice piece on Field Artillery in the Civil War 'There were stories of troops being hit by shells fired by their own side which burst prematurely, and that no doubt happened. Many times it was the sabot, a piece of the rifling band or just a piece which broke off the shell as the cannon fired which struck those troops. Many recovered Parrott projectiles have pieces broken off at the base, attributed to the force of being fired.

I feel better now because I have defended your relative, Captain Dance.

I appreciate that. I have been contemplating all morning whether a relative was the cause of the Confederate losing the battle of Gettysburg, and the ultimate defeat of the Confederate army in the ACW.

 

[Waterloo50]

Well I can think of at least 10 good reasons why the Confederates lost and one of those reasons is due to artillery (Pendleton)

 

[Rio Bravo]

There was a lot of "friendly fire" at Antietam. I think the worst incident was when the 59th New York Regt fired upon their own Union Soldiers, the 5th Massachusetts inflicting some 348 casualties: 60 enlisted Men killed, 238 wounded, 38 missing, and 12 Officers killed & wounded. I personally feel sadness for the 1st Delaware who were the first Union troops to attack the Sunken Road. They were ordered to attack with UNLOADED Rifles , not just once but 4 times ! To make matters worse they were then shot up by the 14th Connecticut who were following behind them - at this point NO Confederates had been killed !

 

[leftyhunter]

Well if they are shooting at us I feel obligated to return fire. I remember reading that somewhere, just not sure where.

I actually met an old PT sailor named George Nicolas who has a fruit stand at the Beverly Hills Farmers Market who is cited in a book about the WW2 PT boat war who killed two Corsair pilots who where strafing his boat. I forgot the title of that book. He is about to retire from going to the BH Farmers Market. Nikolas told me that the story he heard of PT 109 was the boys where drinking and oh well. I remember a Swift Boat vet who was strafed by F-8's. Afterwards they never called in airstrikes again. In war stuff happens.
Leftyhunter

 

[Arioch]

I know of one incident where the soldiers were deliberately ordered to fire into their own troops.

It was the brawl over 'Randol's battery' at White Oak Swamp / Glendale / Frayser's Farm / New Market Crossroads on the Penninsula.

The Confederates had managed to get into the perimeter of the battery and the 4th and 7th Pa. Reserves, who were in support, were ordered to charge with bayonets….they eventually succeeded in driving the confederates out…and continued into the field, chasing them.

When the Federals were ordered to fall back to their lines, they failed to circle around the firing lanes, and came straight back…The men of the battery were yelling at them to loop around….the infantry units failed to heed, and the battery was ordered, again, to fire into the mass of soldiers friend and foe alike….

 

[Tom Elmore]

Wow................ I read this, saw the name "Dance" and had to start some digging. My 3rd great grandmother was Anna Hinton Dance. Come to find out I am a second cousin to Willis Jefferson Dance, in command of this artillery battalion. Kind of eerie.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=103695021
https://d38ls2kcjnhfdj.cloudfront.net/74bbb5bf-df93-4404-8017-de523f5bf567.JPG

Willis Jefferson Dance was born on 21 June 1821 in Powhatan County, Virginia. Educated at Hampden-Sydney College, as well as the University of Virginia (1837-1839), he established a law practice near Powhatan Court House, where his father had served as clerk. With war's arrival, Dance raised a company known as the Powhatan Light Artillery, which was attached to John Thompson Brown's battalion. When Captain Dance was assigned command of the battalion in the spring of 1863, some grumbling arose in the ranks. In a private letter home, Quartermaster Sergeant William Y. Mordecai referred to him as an "old nanny." Yet Dance apparently met the expectations of his superiors – although he afterwards reverted back to command of his battery, he was entrusted to lead the battalion on future occasions when the need arose.

 

[bankerpapaw]

Remember, friendly fire isn't.