Discarded rifles at Gettysburg

[NH Civil War Gal]

I've posted this before, a few years ago, but we have had a lot of new people join since then and it's always worth looking it.

 

[bdtex]

The soldier that loaded his rifle 23 times was probably shell-shocked from the get-go. Can't say for sure that I wouldn't have wet my pants and done the same thing.

 

[JerryD]

Do we know this to be true? It seems a bit far fetched to me. I've heard of soldiers putting multiple loads in a rifle, but this sample would lead you to conclude that 75% of the soldiers were doing that, and that just seems unrealistic to me.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Do we know this to be true? It seems a bit far fetched to me. I've heard of soldiers putting multiple loads in a rifle, but this sample would lead you to conclude that 75% of the soldiers were doing that, and that just seems unrealistic to me.

Go to this link then and read about the staggeringly high number of rifles recovered from Gettysburg that were found loaded and reloaded multiple times.

Almost every rifle recovered at Gettysburg was fully loaded and no one knows why

In the aftermath of the Battle of Gettysburg, the Confederate Army was in full retreat, forced to abandon all of its dead and most of its wounded. The Union Army and citizens of Gettysburg had an ugly cleanup task ahead …

www.wearethemighty.com

 

[W Charles Young]

I think you may want to rethink your calculations. 18,000 rifles with multiple loads is not 75% of all the infantryman that fought at Gettysburg.

 

[jepridgen]

I think you may want to rethink your calculations. 18,000 rifles with multiple loads is not 75% of all the infantryman that fought at Gettysburg.

Usually, I'd disagree with your statement, but I think you are probably correct in this not being a direct correlation to those not dropped or the overall total. I say that because those who did multiple loads were likely the least experienced soldiers although I'm sure even the veterans did it at times. Those inexperienced soldiers would also be the most likely to drop a musket when their line broke or retreated. Still, the percentage of soldiers who did multiple loads must have been significant…probably not 75% though.

 

[Tom Elmore]

A couple of relevant sources:

"Josiah Wolf of my company said, 'Corporal, I have two charges in my gun and I'm afraid to shoot them out.' … I took the gun and fired it. The recoil was terrific. … I am of the opinion that he had five or six charges in, instead of two." (Memoirs of Gettysburg, by Simon Hubler, Company I, 143rd Pennsylvania)

"The morning of July 4th … I went over the wall in front of our [former] position and found the ground covered with muskets. Upon picking one up I found it was loaded and cocked, which made it a dangerous weapon to be lying around. I called out to some soldiers nearby and told them to be careful with the guns, then stuck the one I had in the ground. I did the same to a number of other muskets, and when I left that locality it very much resembled a large field of bean poles, as everyone who picked up a musket, after looking at it, stuck it in the ground" (Member of Battery, A, 1st Rhode Island)

 

[thomas aagaard]

Go to this link then and read about the staggeringly high number of rifles recovered from Gettysburg that were found loaded and reloaded multiple times.

Almost every rifle recovered at Gettysburg was fully loaded and no one knows why

In the aftermath of the Battle of Gettysburg, the Confederate Army was in full retreat, forced to abandon all of its dead and most of its wounded. The Union Army and citizens of Gettysburg had an ugly cleanup task ahead …

www.wearethemighty.com

They, just like Dave Grossman get it all wrong with the claim that "the discarded but loaded weapons recovered after Gettysburg mostly represent soldiers who were psychologically unable or unwilling to fire at the enemy."

The soldiers entered combat with loaded guns. Anyone killed before getting a chance to fire would leave a loaded gun.
Anyone killed during a firefight would have a large chance of leaving a loaded gun, since the men picking up the guns would be defining "loaded" by if there is a bullet in the barrel or not.

None of this is evidence of the soldiers willingness to fire... or not.



oh and the correct number is 27,574, not 37.574

for more details, look at this topic:

Loaded muskets picked up after the battle of Gettysburg. | Small Arms & Ammunition

After the battle of Gettysburg 25.000+ muskets was picked up by the union. Most of them was found loaded and many with more than one round. This is a fact that is mentioned in some of my books, but they all just use another book as a source. Do anyone happen to know what the original source...

civilwartalk.com

 

[Elliot Crumblemuffin]

I am also under the impression that some of the soldiers may have THOUGHT they fired their weapons, but in the fog of war and all the intensity probably didn't realize their weapons did NOT fire.

 

[bdtex]

It appears there are discrepancies among the various sources as to the exact number. Suffice it to say that the number was significant.

 

[JerryD]

I think you may want to rethink your calculations. 18,000 rifles with multiple loads is not 75% of all the infantryman that fought at Gettysburg.

24,000 found still loaded, and 18,000 with multiple loads is 75%. Its a sample. You would not expect to get every rifle used at Gettysburg, of course, so you extrapolate based on the sample. Its simple Statistics. You may argue that the sample is not representative, and that may be true, but the math works otherwise.

 

[JerryD]

Go to this link then and read about the staggeringly high number of rifles recovered from Gettysburg that were found loaded and reloaded multiple times.

Almost every rifle recovered at Gettysburg was fully loaded and no one knows why

In the aftermath of the Battle of Gettysburg, the Confederate Army was in full retreat, forced to abandon all of its dead and most of its wounded. The Union Army and citizens of Gettysburg had an ugly cleanup task ahead …

www.wearethemighty.com

I'm not finding this article as very convincing. Seems the author is just repeating anecdotal stories. Hate to be a skeptic (actually, that's a lie; its my go to position), but I just find the nice round numbers very suspicious.

 

[Cornpone and Molasses]

That soldier that had that last musket was trying to make an IED!! Scary that he was so disoriented and shell shocked!

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I'm not finding this article as very convincing. Seems the author is just repeating anecdotal stories. Hate to be a skeptic (actually, that's a lie; its my go to position), but I just find the nice round numbers very suspicious.

Why the guns at Gettysburg were found loaded | The Vintage News

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi2j7ePi6H5AhWzFlkFHXQbCq0QFnoECAgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FAskHistorians%2Fcomments%2F20zd0f%2Funfired_rifles_at_the_battle_of_gettysburg%2F&usg=AOvVaw0NXQ7QtpOvA3JQNEfo80HG

The Vintage News is from 2016 and the Reddit link is about 8-years-old. You are free to be a skeptic and the numbers may have been skewed, as @Package4 said in a 2016 thread to facilitate bringing in another type of rifle, but the fact remains that a VERY high number of guns WERE found on the battlefield after the fight that had multiple loads in them.

I would think that simply because of the noise and the tremendous excitement/fear going on, how would you even know if your gun went off?

 

[thomas aagaard]

It appears there are discrepancies among the various sources as to the exact number. Suffice it to say that the number was significant.

no, the 37 is a typo as is clear from the original source for the number.
("Of the number received (27,574), at least 24,000 of them were loaded.")

The full text can be found in this post.

Loaded muskets picked up after the battle of Gettysburg. | Small Arms & Ammunition

That's odd to me because .58 Minie bullets could be fired in the Enfield which is why they were used by both sides in large numbers. But after just a few shots you would start to have problems loading it. At some point during the war the south simply decided to stop making .58 bullets and only...

civilwartalk.com

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

There is a rifle at the Springfield Armory in Massachusetts that has (or had) multiple loads in it. I don't know if it came from Gettysburg. I want to visit the Armory but it is in somewhat of a sketchy neighborhood. @captaindrew are you up for a field trip this summer? You can be my escort and keep me out of trouble IF you don't bring along your "recipe!"

 

[Lincoln56]

Why the guns at Gettysburg were found loaded | The Vintage News

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi2j7ePi6H5AhWzFlkFHXQbCq0QFnoECAgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FAskHistorians%2Fcomments%2F20zd0f%2Funfired_rifles_at_the_battle_of_gettysburg%2F&usg=AOvVaw0NXQ7QtpOvA3JQNEfo80HG

The Vintage News is from 2016 and the Reddit link is about 8-years-old. You are free to be a skeptic and the numbers may have been skewed, as @Package4 said in a 2016 thread to facilitate bringing in another type of rifle, but the fact remains that a VERY high number of guns WERE found on the battlefield after the fight that had multiple loads in them.

I would think that simply because of the noise and the tremendous excitement/fear going on, how would you even know if your gun went off?

FWIW think the recoil being felt would be the indicator that the weapon fired in battle conditions but perhaps not if the adrenaline is flowing. When reenacting there is not significant recoil and so sometimes one didn't know if the weapon discharged or not and loaded another black powder round.

 

[jepridgen]

People were often (and still are) shot or injured in combat without even realizing it. A minor thing like a recoil or relatively minor scratch could easily be overlooked in the chaos and noise of combat. The less experience with being on the firing line the more likely you'd forget to cap after firing the first shot which was usually done before things got hot. That happened with ramrods as well. I'd suspect after three or four cartridge loads were stacked up you'd have a serious failure in the integrity of the barrel. Either all the loads would go or the outer loads would just clog it up.

 

[captaindrew]

There is a rifle at the Springfield Armory in Massachusetts that has (or had) multiple loads in it. I don't know if it came from Gettysburg. I want to visit the Armory but it is in somewhat of a sketchy neighborhood. @captaindrew are you up for a field trip this summer? You can be my escort and keep me out of trouble IF you don't bring along your "recipe!"

Funny you should mention my "recipe", I've had a hard time getting one of the crucial ingredients. Beth just called me and she's over in Maine and low and behold she found the missing ingredient. The Holler Boys will be happy for sure. Back on topic yes I'd like to get to the Armory sometime. Our group actually used to do a living history day there every year till the Plague shut that down and haven't been back since.

 

[Northstep]

.. I'd suspect after three or four cartridge loads were stacked up you'd have a serious failure in the integrity of the barrel. Either all the loads would go or the outer loads would just clog it up.

Exactly what I was thinking. It seems to me that a lot of exploded or deformed barrels would be found on battlefields if excessive loads was a routine practice. Just thinking out loud and wondering if any research has been done on the subject.