Difference between a lance and a pike?

[major bill]

I was converting a figure to represent this Michigan home guard company.

The Home Guard (St. Joseph, St. Joseph County) was formed in 1861 by young men in the town of St. Joseph. Captain Ed Aiken as elected as the commander. They selected red, white and blue uniforms which would display their patriotism: red shirts, white pants and blue caps.i​ For arms they carried lances tipped with small American flags. One report said their uniforms were neat and tasty. The patriotism of the young men soon waned and this company did not survive for very long.
i St. Joseph Traveler, July 3 1861, p. 3, col. 1.

I can pretty much understand their uniforms but how do I model their lances? 1. What is the real difference between a lance and a pike? The small American flags almost sound like pennons but pennons are usually swallow tailed. 2. Should their lances be the length of a cavalry lance or the length of an infantry pike? 3. Any guess how long the typical lance or pike might have been during the Civil War era?

Just to satisfy my curiosity, was there a practical reason that lances had pennons? Pennons were originally used on Knights' lances as an ensign so they could be identified. Why were pennons swallow tailed?

 

[Nathan Stuart]

1. What is the real difference between a lance and a pike?

Both the lance and the pike are combat weapons that are essentially long spears - with long wooden shafts and pointed metal heads.

The lance is a cavalry soldier's weapon designed and used in mounted combat.

In contrast, the pike was an infantry soldier's weapon carried into combat on foot. It's typically heavier and longer (perhaps twice longer) than a lance.

 

[7thWisconsin]

A pike is very long, 12-18 feet during the ¨pike and shot¨ period of around 1500-1700. It´s purpose was to keep cavalry away from the musketmen while they reloaded. The navy still had boarding pikes around during the 1860s, but they´re shorter - around 6 feet. John Brown´s homemade pikes were 6 feet long too. With a wicked broad head. Lances were still in use in European cavalry at this time. They´re around 8 feet long, but thinner in diameter than a pike, and made of a wood with spring. They also tended to have a long thin blade. They needed to be long enough to deliver the shock ahead of the charging cavalryman, but light enough that he could maneuver the lance while fighting. They´re an offensive weapon with the intent of riding down opposing infantry formations that had been disrupted by artillery fire and the punch of the heavy cavalry: big men with heavy swords riding heavy horses.

 

[major bill]

It does make sense that a lance had to be lighter because it was carried in only one hand. I suspect the St. Joseph Home Guard had their lances locally made. If an original one was ever discovered it would make for a wonderful Museum display. The Michigan Military Heratige Museum has a cut down John Brown pike.

 

[Old Soldier]

The pike is INFANTRY - long, 12ft or more. The head is sturdy (Bowie like? A simple, heavy spear-blade, not an ax-like cutting edge = halberd) ) with a long socket and the shaft is quite thick. It had to withstand the shock of piercing a charging horse and stand a good chance of surviving. It is heavy. (Boarding pikes were much shorter and lighter) It was a serious weapon both for defence and attack (push of pike) . It was made obsolete by the flintlock musket and socket bayonet at the end of the 17th century It made it's last appearance in 1940 when some of Britain's Home Guard were issued metal poles with a SMLE bayonet welded to one end. Without mincing words, they told the War Office what they could do with them and were very quickly replaced by older rifles and M1917 rifles from US Arsenals.

The lance is CAVALRY - a light thrusting spear (not throwing), about 8 ft long, with a thin piercing blade (stiletto-like?) designed for one good hit at the gallop with the lance tucked under the armpit and the weight of the rider behind it, wooden shafts often broke on that first hit, before the rider drew his saber and got stuck in! Many early 20th century lances had metal tube shafts. It was for attack only and was a fearsome weapon on it's reintroduction in at the end of the 18th century when there was no body armour available especially on surprise or flanking attacks. It vanished again with the introduction of the rifle and machine gun which made a cavalry charge almost impossible. The last were retired by Poland in 1934 or 1937.

 

[7thWisconsin]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzK1gGmTx0I Imagine hundreds of these.

 

[Old Soldier]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzK1gGmTx0I Imagine hundreds of these.

The CMP, NWMP, RCMP were never equipped with a lance - or used for military purposes - those lances are pure decoration and display only.

Better watching

or

 

[FedericoFCavada]

The CMP, NWMP, RCMP were never equipped with a lance - or used for military purposes - those lances are pure decoration and display only.

Better watching

or

Recall that John Brown's self-styled Provisional Army of the United States contracted various polearms from a Connecticut blacksmith. These were invariably referred to as "pikes" even though they were only some 7-feet long, [to be utterly pedantic: overall: 81 1/4 in x 4 1/2 in x 1 1/4 in; 206.375 cm x 11.43 cm x 3.175 cm & overall: 80 5/8 in x 4 3/4 in; 204.7875 cm x 12.065 cm]. Six-feet of ash wood for the handle, and the remainder of the length a double-edged point made up from a knife taken by Brown during the violence in Kansas.

So while military pikes were often 12-feet long, with examples from antiquity like the Macedonian sarissa apparently ranging from 13 feet to upwards 20 feet long, shorter spears were very frequently labeled "pikes." An oddity of the "Enlightenment" obsessions with antiquity, particularly exaltation of the Roman Republic and the Athenians was the idea that the spear was a "democratic" weapon of the citizen legionary and hoplite. So during the French Revolution, various pikes were turned out by ateliers nationaux, even if the French managed to equip armies with sufficient muskets in all the battles of the various wars of the French Revolution and the Napoleonic period. Nonetheless, this idealization of the spear "pike" assumed the proportions that in the 1790s U.S. campaigns against Indians/Native Americans some U.S. riflemen carried "pikes" in sections that could be fitted together like a pool cue, or taken apart for stowage in a more compact space. Such a system of armament was even extolled by some eccentrics like British-born Italian (or Italian Briton if you prefer) Francesco "Francis" Macerone "Maceroni." He'd been an aide-de-camp of the King of Naples Joachim Murat during the Napoleonic Wars, and had been around the tumultuous early 19th century before he became an inventor. His claim to fame--however ephemeral--was a steam coach that could carry eight passengers, which was something of a marvel at the time. He created an odd militia training manual by 1832 called Defensive Instructions for the People. His idea was to instruct raw levees of men designated as militia in basic military discipline. He thought that an ideal basic weapon would be a lance of his own design, that could be broken down and stowed away, or reassembled and used by his novel system of "foot lancers." These militia would have a spear--in essence--to ward of cavalry, and a bunch of civilian-type arms including pistols, shotguns/fowling pieces, and some muskets for fighting on foot, but would also have instruction in fighting from horseback--the British Yeomanry of the era, for instance, were a sort of medieval holdover of mounted country squires led by the local prominent landowner or aristocrat. We might consider this a sort of militia Dragoon system, except for the use of the "lance" on foot or while mounted.

Apologies for the long post, but hopefully it will bridge the gap between the pike's use as a weapon from antiquity, through the early modern period (the Swedish army was using pikes in the 1700s during the Great Northern War, etc.) and into the 19th-century. A further angle is the naval boarding pike. The USN 1797 pattern was about 8-feet long, but still referred to as a "pike" rather than a "spear."
https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/c...boarding pikes typically,to 12 feet in length.

Bottom line: a pike is a spear used by footmen/infantry or sailors. A lance is a spear used by horsemen or mounted troops.

 

[Old Soldier]

The naval boarding pike was stout and short because it had to be - the average height of a gun deck was only 5'6". It was the reason why the navy used smaller barrel 'short' muskets too and, of course the cutlass - essentially a short saber, and not a sword. A naval boarding party was going to engage in a fight of movement and 'shock' tactics and this was best served in the confined area of a ship's deck by edged weapons. They did not like the idea of the bayonet and the 'boarding pike' was used in lieu. like the infantry pike, it was used for defence - repelling boarders, as well as attack.
The guys armed with muskets were rarely the first to board and were used as an initial volley before covering the flanks of the boarding party, often without leaving the ship's rail, as well as from the rigging and tops. Pistols were preferred for the boarding party, but not regarded as THE weapon until the revolver became general issue. Other weapons were also used, mainly the boarding ax, knives and anything that could be used as a cudgel if nothing else was at hand. It was war - and it was cruel. BTW - this WAS naval warfare before the cannon and the English broadside took over around 1580. The image below shows a good variety:

 

[Lampasas Bill]

According to Civil War regulations, the "pole" for an infantry color was referred to as a "pike", while a cavalry standard was displayed on a "lance".

 

[Old Soldier]

Yes, it was the last use for the pike, but not a very long one, was for the colors of a regiment. In the cavalry, the standard is carried on a lighter pole (lance) and is smaller than the infantry one. In European armies, the heavy cavalry carry standards and the light cavalry guidons. In the US Army units smaller than battalion size may carry a guidon.

 

[FedericoFCavada]

Yes, a U.S. navy "List of Military Stores ordered to be transported to Boston for the Frigate Constitution" included

150 muskets with Bayonets, & Cartouch Boxes---complete... [aka. a "stand" of arms, in this instance, 150]
200 handGrenades [lobbed from the high-tops onto enemy decks]
5 Tons Sheet Lead
24 Tin Latherns
3,600 round shot for 24-pounders.

supplemented 10 Aug. 1797 with
100 Boarding Axes
12 Blunderbusses
10,000 Musket Balls
20,000 Pistol ditto
2 copper pumps
100 Boarding or quarter Pikes.

By 9 April 1798
an additional 100 pairs of pistols
200 Cutlasses
759 stools of grape and cannister shot for 24 pounders
300 ditto for 12 pounders
450 double headed & chain shot--24 ditto
210 ditto ditto 12 ditto
1759 round shot ... 12 pounders
60 Muskets & accoutrements complete for Marines...

 

[7thWisconsin]

The CMP, NWMP, RCMP were never equipped with a lance - or used for military purposes - those lances are pure decoration and display only.

Better watching

or

I´d agree with you except for the fact that the RCMP unit that does the ride are professionals and train daily to do what they do. The other examples are actors and extras who only did that once, with some help from a director.

 

[Old Soldier]

I´d agree with you except for the fact that the RCMP unit that does the ride are professionals and train daily to do what they do. The other examples are actors and extras who only did that once, with some help from a director.

The RCMP do not use lances and never have. The RCMP are policemen and no longer ride horses on a daily basis either. These guys are a drill display team. The military drill display teams practise daily on their drills too, but are they all marksmen with the rifles they use? Are they good infantrymen? The M14s used do not even have a magazine fitted and some are chrome plated and never intended to be fired. Does that make the guys who use them familiar with all the various operational drills need to use that rifle in the field? The Norwegian Kongens Garde display team drill with M1s, but they are not used by them in the field.

In contrast, the UK and Netherlands Royal guards are serving soldiers who drill with the service rifle and use the standard infantry drill. They are GUARDS, sentries. No, their foot drill and arms drill is not particularly showy, but they are perfectly capable of using those rifles if necessary. Ammunition is available when required.

 

[7thWisconsin]

Interesting article on making the RCMP mounted squad. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ky-mounties-a-dream-come-true/article1365059/

 

[FedericoFCavada]

Capt. J. G. Benton, Ordnance and Gunnery (1862 reprint; Gettysburg: Thomas Publications), 279:

"The lance. The lance, or pike, is composed of a sharp steel blade, fixed to the end of a long and slender handle of wood (figure 85).
The blade is generally from 8 to 10 inches long, and, in order that it may combine stiffness with lightness, is grooved after the manner of the common bayonet, leaving three or four ridges. The base of the blade has a socket, and two iron straps, for securing it to the handle. Three small staples are sometimes fastened to the handle, below the blade, for the purpose of attaching a pennon, which serves as an ornament, and to frighten the enemy's horses.
The handle is made of strong, light, well-seasoned wood. The lower end is protected with a tip of iron, and a leather loop (c) is attached opposite the centre of gravity, to enable the arm to carry and guide the lance. The total length of a lance varies from 8 1/2 to 11 feet, and the weight is about 4 1/2 lbs. ...
Bayonet. The bayonet is a pointed blade attached to the end of a fire-arm, to convert it into a pike."

 

[archieclement]

The pike is INFANTRY - long, 12ft or more. The head is sturdy (Bowie like? A simple, heavy spear-blade, not an ax-like cutting edge = halberd) ) with a long socket and the shaft is quite thick. It had to withstand the shock of piercing a charging horse and stand a good chance of surviving. It is heavy. (Boarding pikes were much shorter and lighter) It was a serious weapon both for defence and attack (push of pike) . It was made obsolete by the flintlock musket and socket bayonet at the end of the 17th century It made it's last appearance in 1940 when some of Britain's Home Guard were issued metal poles with a SMLE bayonet welded to one end. Without mincing words, they told the War Office what they could do with them and were very quickly replaced by older rifles and M1917 rifles from US Arsenals.

The lance is CAVALRY - a light thrusting spear (not throwing), about 8 ft long, with a thin piercing blade (stiletto-like?) designed for one good hit at the gallop with the lance tucked under the armpit and the weight of the rider behind it, wooden shafts often broke on that first hit, before the rider drew his saber and got stuck in! Many early 20th century lances had metal tube shafts. It was for attack only and was a fearsome weapon on it's reintroduction in at the end of the 18th century when there was no body armour available especially on surprise or flanking attacks. It vanished again with the introduction of the rifle and machine gun which made a cavalry charge almost impossible. The last were retired by Poland in 1934 or 1937.

This is what I think of due to modern song when I think of lance, and Polish as well. Also depicts pikes about halfway through.

 

[RodentRevolution]

Bonhams : A British Cavalry Lance

The double-edged spear-point of hollowed diamond section, with integral socket of tapering circular section extended to form side-straps secured by screws, the former stamped 'Enfield' and with inspector's mark and an obsolete mark, one side-strap carrying three pierced spherical mounts for a...

www.bonhams.com

British military Cavalry lance 1868 pattern - Antique Swords and Weapons | Arms and Armour | Islamic and Oriental swords | Ethnographic, Asian, and Tribal Art from Ashoka Arts

British military Cavalry lance 1868 pattern - original authentic lance as used throughout the 19th century by the victorians throughout the british empire. Used noteably during the Zulu wars and in insurrections in India. fine antique arms and armour swo

www.ashokaarts.com

Those are British examples but about 9 foot is standard for the era, Polish lances historically could have been longer but as noted above the Winged Hussar were something else.

The essential difference between a pike and a lance is that a lance must be controlled one handed and its weight borne on one arm as the other is busy controlling the horse. However, be careful with references to either, in an emergency folks often armed themselves with spears but no civilised person would admit to wielding a spear, so they called them pikes or if sufficiently confused lances, which means that there were some awfully short pikes out there which were not boarding pikes.

 

[archieclement]

Bonhams : A British Cavalry Lance

The double-edged spear-point of hollowed diamond section, with integral socket of tapering circular section extended to form side-straps secured by screws, the former stamped 'Enfield' and with inspector's mark and an obsolete mark, one side-strap carrying three pierced spherical mounts for a...

www.bonhams.com

British military Cavalry lance 1868 pattern - Antique Swords and Weapons | Arms and Armour | Islamic and Oriental swords | Ethnographic, Asian, and Tribal Art from Ashoka Arts

British military Cavalry lance 1868 pattern - original authentic lance as used throughout the 19th century by the victorians throughout the british empire. Used noteably during the Zulu wars and in insurrections in India. fine antique arms and armour swo

www.ashokaarts.com

Those are British examples but about 9 foot is standard for the era, Polish lances historically could have been longer but as noted above the Winged Hussar were something else.

The essential difference between a pike and a lance is that a lance must be controlled e handed and its weight borne on one arm as the other is busy controlling the horse. However, be careful with references to either, in an emergency folks often armed themselves with spears but no civilised person would admit to wielding a spear, so they called them pikes or if sufficiently confused lances, which means that there were some awfully short pikes out there which were not boarding pikes.

??? Every description I've read has main weapon of the winged hussar as lances.

They depending on era carried various secondary weapons, sword, hatchet, or even pistol.

The winged hussars lance was an ingenious evolution in lance technology. Pikes had countered lances by being longer, as Lance's being limited by weight, were limited in length. The winged hussar lance was hollow, reducing weight, and thereby allowing more length to the lances to destroy pikemen.

The Winged Hussar's Kopia / Lance - Grififn Brady

The item that made winged hussars stand out was the kopia—the long lance they carried into a charge. There are varying measures of the length of a hussar’s lance because so few survived, but it was designed to outreach pikes.

www.griffin-brady.com

Though the 2nd rank in a winged hussar charge might carry kopijka, shorter solid lances for use once first rank breaks the pikemen.

 

[RodentRevolution]

??? Every description I've read has main weapon of the winged hussar as lances.

They depending on era carried various secondary weapons, sword, hatchet, or even pistol.

The winged hussars lance was an ingenious evolution in lance technology. Pikes had countered lances by being longer, as Lance's being limited by weight, were limited in length. The winged hussar lance was hollow, reducing weight, and thereby allowing more length to the lances to destroy pikemen.

The Winged Hussar's Kopia / Lance - Grififn Brady

The item that made winged hussars stand out was the kopia—the long lance they carried into a charge. There are varying measures of the length of a hussar’s lance because so few survived, but it was designed to outreach pikes.

www.griffin-brady.com

Though the 2nd rank in a winged hussar charge might carry kopijka, shorter solid lances for use once first rank breaks the pikemen

I am wondering what descriptions you have read. An easy explanation for the Poles ability to carry long lances would be the lance rest.

This example is German but from the same period as the rise of the Polish Hussars. The difference between the existence of rests of course and the hollow lance is that we have extant examples of actual period pieces. Be very careful of elaborate 'technical' explanations about the Polish Hussar lancers, we know they were good but we do not actually understand in detail why they were good. We also know that English and Swedish cavalry to name just two examples also defeated pike and shot infantry...with swords. Mind you the Polish Hussars tended to beat Swedish horse so long as you could get enough of them into the field.

However to get back to my point (not being let down by a hollow shaft shattering before penetrating the target's corslet).

By the 19th century the typical military lance in Europe and North America seems to have trended towards 9 foot in length.