Did mercenaries still exist?

[MikeyB]

Did European mercenary armies (ie. the Hessians) still exist during the Civil War? Did Lincoln (or Davis for that matter) ever consider hiring them? I assume the politics would look terrible and the answer is no, but who knows.

 

[leftyhunter]

Did European mercenary armies (ie. the Hessians) still exist during the Civil War? Did Lincoln (or Davis for that matter) ever consider hiring them? I assume the politics would look terrible and the answer is no, but who knows.

Not sure how Davis could hire a foreign army because with what currency would he pay them? Even if Davis could hire a mercenary army said army could only safely enter the Confederacy from the Ports of Bagdad and Montomoros Mexico then enter Brownsville and try to make their way East .
What the British government did during the ARW was to hire various Germanic Principalities armies by offering a lump sum per soldier and if said soldier was killed or injured then an additional sum.
The men on said armies were not necessarily mercenaries but conscripts.
Bounus points if one can PM me with examples of the US doing the same but in the modern era.
The US did not copy the British hiring of foreign armies but did recruit individual soldiers overseas and yes I have a thread on that.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Did European mercenary armies (ie. the Hessians) still exist during the Civil War? Did Lincoln (or Davis for that matter) ever consider hiring them? I assume the politics would look terrible and the answer is no, but who knows.

The only Mercenary Army that existed was the newly formed French Foreign Legion which was assigned to fight in Mexico. In theory both the Union and Confederacy could of hired the FFL but lots of practical reasons why it could not.
The US granting bounties to volunteers later in the ACW would of been well known in Western Europe via local European newspapers.
Leftyhunter

 

[thomas aagaard]

Did European mercenary armies (ie. the Hessians) still exist during the Civil War? Did Lincoln (or Davis for that matter) ever consider hiring them? I assume the politics would look terrible and the answer is no, but who knows.

The Hessians where not mercenaries.
The British crown paid Hesse-Kassel to deploy part if its armies in support of the British.
That was completely normal in the 18th century.

At the Battle of the Boyne in Ireland in 1690 a good part of the danish army was involved... It was simply rented by William III.
At Blenheim in 1704 we again see part of the danish army... again rented.

One of the things that helped Brandenburg (Prussia) become a regional power was that it had a very good army. So other states paid them large sums of money for fighting on their side in wars. For some of the smaller German states renting out its army became part of how the state generated a income.
And the British paid Hesse-Kassel money for simply having a big army... so they could rent it if needed.
The men where still enlisted soldiers in the army of Hesse-Kassel.

It should be noted that during this period it was not in any way uncommon to be serving in a army from another state than where you where born.

During the Napoleonic wars the brits paid most of their allies money to help them keep larger armies in the field than they would otherwise have been able to.
And this is still being done... with UN missions the most comparable example.

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During the civil war there where attempts at recruiting men in Europe. The idea was to get men who where thinking about immigrating anyway. The union pay the trip and a big enlistment bonus. So if you survive the war, you will be way better off then if you had to pay your own way.
This is closer to mercenaries. But they are still enlisting at the same basic conditions as any american. And in the same units.


Obviously enlisting none citizens is done today also...


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edit: typos

 

[Llewellyn]

The Alabama ships company (except officers) was largely British, attracted by higher pay (paid quarterly by orders on Liverpool) and the chances of prize money.
It seems they were worth the money - several contemporary eye witness accounts of the Cherbourg battle commented on the comparative rapidity of fire from Alabama vis a vis Kearsarge, putting this down to the Excellent training of Alabama's gunners. HMS Excellent was the Royal Navy gunnery training ship (later shore establishment) located in Portsmouth Harbour.

Britain had a law, the 1819 Foreign Enlistments Act, which was meant to prevent Britons enlisting in the armed forces of foreign states which were at war with countries with which the British were at peace, but it seems to have been pretty ineffective, as it had been specifically aimed at events surrounding the liberation struggles of Spanish colonies in South America. A further Act was promulgated in 1870 to address the inadequacies of the 1819 Act, which had failed to prevent the Florida, Alabama and Alexandra being built in English yards for the Confederacy.

 

[MikeyB]

The only Mercenary Army that existed was the newly formed French Foreign Legion which was assigned to fight in Mexico. In theory both the Union and Confederacy could of hired the FFL but lots of practical reasons why it could not.
The US granting bounties to volunteers later in the ACW would of been well known in Western Europe via local European newspapers.
Leftyhunter

Is this French Foreign Legion different from the government controlled French Foreign Legion?

 

[Irishtom29]

There are still Swiss to be had but no Landsknechts. And I wouldn't mess with these guys.

 

[leftyhunter]

Is this French Foreign Legion different from the government controlled French Foreign Legion?

Same one as today.
Leftyhunter

 

[PrivateBrooke]

Haven't there always been mercenaries? Even today there are still mercenary groups.

 

[leftyhunter]

Haven't there always been mercenaries? Even today there are still mercenary groups.

One mercenary said mercenaries are man's second oldest profession. Today we don't have mercenaries we have "Security Contractors".
Leftyhunter

 

[PrivateBrooke]

One mercenary said mercenaries are man's second oldest profession. Today we don't have mercenaries we have "Security Contractors".
Leftyhunter

Tomato, tomahto though?

 

[leftyhunter]

Tomato, tomahto though?

Yes and no but it gets into modern politics. If you or others want to we could have a PM discussion.
Leftyhunter

 

[Sgt. Tyree]

The FFL is a unit used by France to fight colonial wars. The enlisted men are foreigners and the officers are French. France has never hired the FFL out to another government as far as I know.

 

[Poorville]

Did European mercenary armies (ie. the Hessians) still exist during the Civil War? Did Lincoln (or Davis for that matter) ever consider hiring them? I assume the politics would look terrible and the answer is no, but who knows.

I don't believe there were any such armies available for hire at the time. I guess the thought may have crossed the minds of the advisors, of both Lincoln and Davis, at some time. Their best chance would have been getting support from one of the major European countries, but none was forthcoming.

 

[Poorville]

The only Mercenary Army that existed was the newly formed French Foreign Legion which was assigned to fight in Mexico. In theory both the Union and Confederacy could of hired the FFL but lots of practical reasons why it could not.
The US granting bounties to volunteers later in the ACW would of been well known in Western Europe via local European newspapers.
Leftyhunter

I think not Leftyhunter, the FFL was not a mercenary army, hiring the FFL would only be possible as a fighting force of the French army, which as we know remained neutral.

 

[Poorville]

The Alabama ships company (except officers) was largely British, attracted by higher pay (paid quarterly by orders on Liverpool) and the chances of prize money.
It seems they were worth the money - several contemporary eye witness accounts of the Cherbourg battle commented on the comparative rapidity of fire from Alabama vis a vis Kearsarge, putting this down to the Excellent training of Alabama's gunners. HMS Excellent was the Royal Navy gunnery training ship (later shore establishment) located in Portsmouth Harbour.

Britain had a law, the 1819 Foreign Enlistments Act, which was meant to prevent Britons enlisting in the armed forces of foreign states which were at war with countries with which the British were at peace, but it seems to have been pretty ineffective, as it had been specifically aimed at events surrounding the liberation struggles of Spanish colonies in South America. A further Act was promulgated in 1870 to address the inadequacies of the 1819 Act, which had failed to prevent the Florida, Alabama and Alexandra being built in English yards for the Confederacy.

Quite right, if I recall correctly even some of the officers on the Alabama were British. In addition to the commerce raiders, the blockade runners were crewed by foreigners. The crews of both the commerce raiders and blockade runners were not merceneraries as per the OP re Hessians, although they were in it for the financial returns.

 

[leftyhunter]

I think not Leftyhunter, the FFL was not a mercenary army, hiring the FFL would only be possible as a fighting force of the French army, which as we know remained neutral.

If Napoleon the III wanted to hire the FFL out he certainly could but he chose not to.
Leftyhunter

 

[Poorville]

If Napoleon the III wanted to hire the FFL out he certainly could but he chose not to.
Leftyhunter

I think that's exactly what I said, the FFL as an integral part of the French army would have taken France into the ACW.

 

[danny]

While not mercenaries, the Union Army was aided tremendously by foreigners; including entire German speaking divisions.

Approximately 516,000 Union soldiers, or 23.4% of all Union soldiers, were immigrants; about 216,000 of these were born in Germany.

A popular Union commander and native German, Major General Franz Sigel was the highest ranking German-American officer in the Union Army, with many Germans enlisting to "fight mit Sigel." ...He was a member of the Forty-Eighters, a political movement of revolutionaries in German states whose failure led to thousands of Germans emigrating to the United States. These included such future Civil War General officers as Maj. Gen. Carl Schurz, Brig. Gen. August Willich, Louis Blenker, Max Weber and Alexander Schimmelfennig.

Other prominent German generals included Peter Osterhaus, Edward S. Salomon, Frederick C. Salomon, August Kautz and Felix Salm-Salm. Hundreds of German-born officers led regiments during the war, including Col. Gustav Tafel, Col. Paul A. Frank, Col. Friedrich Hecker, Col. Leopold von Gilsa, and Maj. Jurgen Wilson. Among the very best Union artillerists was German-born Capt. Hubert Dilger, who had been trained at the Karlsruhe Military Academy.

Because the North was not ringed about by a blockade, immigration continued unabated, and was in fact enhanced, by the war

 

[MikeyB]

While not mercenaries, the Union Army was aided tremendously by foreigners; including entire German speaking divisions.

Approximately 516,000 Union soldiers, or 23.4% of all Union soldiers, were immigrants; about 216,000 of these were born in Germany.

A popular Union commander and native German, Major General Franz Sigel was the highest ranking German-American officer in the Union Army, with many Germans enlisting to "fight mit Sigel." ...He was a member of the Forty-Eighters, a political movement of revolutionaries in German states whose failure led to thousands of Germans emigrating to the United States. These included such future Civil War General officers as Maj. Gen. Carl Schurz, Brig. Gen. August Willich, Louis Blenker, Max Weber and Alexander Schimmelfennig.

Other prominent German generals included Peter Osterhaus, Edward S. Salomon, Frederick C. Salomon, August Kautz and Felix Salm-Salm. Hundreds of German-born officers led regiments during the war, including Col. Gustav Tafel, Col. Paul A. Frank, Col. Friedrich Hecker, Col. Leopold von Gilsa, and Maj. Jurgen Wilson. Among the very best Union artillerists was German-born Capt. Hubert Dilger, who had been trained at the Karlsruhe Military Academy.

Because the North was not ringed about by a blockade, immigration continued unabated, and was in fact enhanced, by the war

Thanks. I've seen many of those names but I always wondered - were any of these generals considered great commanders?