Devil's Den's defense

infomanpa

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Pennsylvania
Here is the location of Union monuments at Devil's Den with lines drawn to indicate their flank markers. The regiments belonging to Ward's brigade are indicated in green. In black notation are the location of the monuments to Smith's 4th NY Battery, also showing flank markers. Smith had 4 guns right above the "den," but located 2 more in the rear because they could not be accommodated with the others.
Devil's Den.jpg

Notice the significant difference between the location of the guns on today's battlefield versus what many now believe were the actual position of the guns (in red). Any thoughts on this? Evidently, it has been controversial for some time. The story of Devil's Den has particularly fascinated me. The most detailed information that I have found comes from Garry Adelman and Timothy Smith's excellent book.
 
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In 1888, Captain Smith was with General Hunt in Devil's Den. General Hunt told Smith:

Captain, get a painter and have painted upon this rock the fact that your left piece rested within a few feet, and to the north, of this point, and you will have a historic monument located upon the ground occupied by your guns on this ridge. If you had placed your pieces down where the monument stands, I would have arrested you for incompetency. It is not flattering to my intelligence as an artillerist to infer that I did countenance such a position while a better one was to be had.

It is too bad that the rock to have been painted has been lost to history. I have used Garry's and Tim's Devil's Den A history and guide book myself to see if I cold guess where Smith's guns were at. The area you have identified seems reasonable to me. It is not too forward and not close to their current monument. Of course I am an incompetent artillerist.
 
I can't square the "actual position" (post #1) of the four guns of 4 NY with extant accounts. The 17th Georgia (second from right in Benning's brigade) and part of the 44th Alabama (coming up from the south) attacked those guns. The 2nd Georgia on the right of the 17th passed south of the massive boulders by my calculations. Also, no accounts place the 4th NY behind the 124th NY. Therefore my suggested position of the guns would be near the "Y" and "B" in "4 NY Bat.," - that is just to the east of where they sit today. My attached draft map of 5:25 p.m., July 2 depicts the situation when the Confederates were exerting control over the forward guns of Smith (two shown in red, one in blue), but the 4th Maine then counterattacked and took back possession of the three guns for a few minutes. The fourth gun was brought off about 45 minutes earlier but got stuck amid boulders where it remained in "no-man's land" until it was eventually recovered by the Federals.
 

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Therefore my suggested position of the guns would be near the "Y" and "B" in "4 NY Bat.," - that is just to the east of where they sit today.


@Tom Elmore , your comment above is for the two rear guns, correct? From my reading, that sounds very reasonable.

I have always assumed that the 4 guns on the top of Devil's Den would not be firing over the heads of Union infantry. Because of that elevated position, how low could the forward guns of Smith's go to hit the charging Confederates? Could they get low enough for example to hit targets in the general area of the old trolley line in the valley below the Triangular field? Or were they only limited to hitting targets say on the same level as the Slyder Farm?
 
@Tom Elmore , your comment above is for the two rear guns, correct? From my reading, that sounds very reasonable.

I have always assumed that the 4 guns on the top of Devil's Den would not be firing over the heads of Union infantry. Because of that elevated position, how low could the forward guns of Smith's go to hit the charging Confederates? Could they get low enough for example to hit targets in the general area of the old trolley line in the valley below the Triangular field? Or were they only limited to hitting targets say on the same level as the Slyder Farm?

Actually I meant the four forward guns were just to the east of where they are positioned today, but in any case they could not be on the elevation above and behind the 124th New York because accounts do not support that placement. Per Weygant's history, a 100 yard gap existed between the 124th and 86th (which was partially covered by Company A). That would put the next company (F) about opposite the northeast corner of the triangular field, and the left of the 124th would then be nearly 200 feet further south. Sgt. J. Harvey Hanford of Company B, 124th New York (the far left company) later wrote (National Tribune, September 24, 1885) that Capt. Smith "would come to us and ask and beg of us to help him fire" [his guns], and later begged the men of the 124th not to let the enemy capture his guns - that threat would have to come from the right of the 1st Texas (and Company I/4th Texas) since the 124th soon charged into the triangular field and met the oncoming brigade of Benning. Therefore Smith's guns were closest to the far left company of the 124th New York, from which I infer from their vulnerability that they were just off to the left of the 124th New York, which is how I show them on my attached draft map of 4:40 p.m.:
 

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I can't square the "actual position" (post #1) of the four guns of 4 NY with extant accounts. The 17th Georgia (second from right in Benning's brigade) and part of the 44th Alabama (coming up from the south) attacked those guns. The 2nd Georgia on the right of the 17th passed south of the massive boulders by my calculations. Also, no accounts place the 4th NY behind the 124th NY. Therefore my suggested position of the guns would be near the "Y" and "B" in "4 NY Bat.," - that is just to the east of where they sit today. My attached draft map of 5:25 p.m., July 2 depicts the situation when the Confederates were exerting control over the forward guns of Smith (two shown in red, one in blue), but the 4th Maine then counterattacked and took back possession of the three guns for a few minutes. The fourth gun was brought off about 45 minutes earlier but got stuck amid boulders where it remained in "no-man's land" until it was eventually recovered by the Federals.

You are correct about the NY artillery not being behind the 124th NY. If my map implied that, then I should have clarified my method. My lines are drawn by connecting the main monument to the flank markers for easier reference. In order to get a more accurate positioning of a regiment, you would draw a straight line from the left flank marker to the right marker. By doing that,you can see that the front of the 124th is about even with the line of the artillery.

Thanks for your interpretation of the gun location. It certainly is possible.
 
If we use the line from the 124th New York monument to its right flank marker, and extend it 200 feet southward, we could also conclude the four guns of the 4th New York battery were positioned not far from where they sit today. The 124th New York monument would thus mark the right of Company F during the battle, and then the axis of the regiment's charge into the triangular field makes perfect sense.

But it also calls into question the positioning of the 99th Pennsylvania monument and its flank markers. Since the 99th moved southward behind Ward's line, my thinking has it going into position between the right flank marker of the 4th Maine and the left gun of the 4th New York battery. Moving in among the large boulders in that vicinity would enable it to fire down upon the 2nd Georgia moving eastward on the south side of those boulders, which fits with extant accounts. At the same time the 99th could relieve the 4th Maine, which fell back (northward) to regroup as shown on my 1725 map.

Incidentally, this is a good time to mention that the field of boulders, which is marked as a shaded area on my map, and which are so popular in modern times with visitors to the Den, formed a natural barrier (running NE-SW) that divided the field much like the man-made railroad cuts did on July 1. They split up the 44th Alabama moving up from the south and afterwards separated the 2nd Georgia from the rest of Benning's brigade. The boulders served the purposes of both sides: they bolstered/anchored the Union defense, but also provided cover for Confederates moving up to threaten the left of the 4th New York battery.

The southwest corner of that boulder field initially enabled a detachment of the 4th Maine, bolstered by some retreating Second U.S. Sharpshooters, to annoy the right of Robertson's Texans, while at the same time protecting them from hostile fire from the south (44th Alabama) as noted on my map 1640. But the advance of Benning placed those same Federals between the proverbial "rock and a hard place," trapping them and forcing their surrender (shown as four blue dots moving to the Confederate rear on map 1725).
 
@infomanpa and @Tom Elmore , I can't thank you enough for your excellent posts. This is good stuff. Tom, your electronic library has to be enourmous for you to make your posts so quickly and so concisely.

So, let me try to wrap this up. Regimental history seems to place Smith's 4 forward guns further east but still close to where they stand today. East would push the 4 guns more or less directly behind where the guns sit today. Now let's go back and interject Hunt's conversation with Smith 25 years after the battle. Hunt talks about painting a rock and placing their monument a few feet north. Below is a google satellite view of Smith's guns current position. Now based on that conversation, I have assumed that the rock that Hunt was referring to Hunt Rock A below. Another option is the oblong rock marked Hunt rock 2.

Does Hunt's conversation with Smith add any credible clues on the guns location or did the 25 years of elapsed time cloud their memory? As you venture north of that location, the largest rocks are just in front of the 99th Pa monument. But there are few others. Lastly, are the 2 locations I id'd below, far enough away from the current position to motivate Hunt to interject the incompetency comment?

I don't recall reading that Smith's monument was ever moved. I remember it being vandalized, but not moved. Thanks all.
IMG_0380.jpg
 
@infomanpa and @Tom Elmore , I can't thank you enough for your excellent posts. This is good stuff. Tom, your electronic library has to be enourmous for you to make your posts so quickly and so concisely.

So, let me try to wrap this up. Regimental history seems to place Smith's 4 forward guns further east but still close to where they stand today. East would push the 4 guns more or less directly behind where the guns sit today. Now let's go back and interject Hunt's conversation with Smith 25 years after the battle. Hunt talks about painting a rock and placing their monument a few feet north. Below is a google satellite view of Smith's guns current position. Now based on that conversation, I have assumed that the rock that Hunt was referring to Hunt Rock A below. Another option is the oblong rock marked Hunt rock 2.

Does Hunt's conversation with Smith add any credible clues on the guns location or did the 25 years of elapsed time cloud their memory? As you venture north of that location, the largest rocks are just in front of the 99th Pa monument. But there are few others. Lastly, are the 2 locations I id'd below, far enough away from the current position to motivate Hunt to interject the incompetency comment?

I don't recall reading that Smith's monument was ever moved. I remember it being vandalized, but not moved. Thanks all.
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Nice detective work. Looking at elevation readings in this vicinity on Google Earth suggests to me north of Hunt Rock 1/A, which happens to put the right gun just under 200 feet from the 124th New York monument.
 
Based on the input, here is my latest estimate of Smith's guns (Green line below). As I mentioned previously, there are several large rocks directly in front of the 99th Pa monument. Is it possible that Smith's guns were a bit west of the green line (left) and one of those rocks in front of the 99th is the rock Hunt was referring to be painted - the blue line in the map shot.

I have used Garry's and Tim's Devil's Den book a lot and the Smith's gun location has always been an interesting mystery to me.
IMG_0383.jpg
 
But it also calls into question the positioning of the 99th Pennsylvania monument and its flank markers. Since the 99th moved southward behind Ward's line, my thinking has it going into position between the right flank marker of the 4th Maine and the left gun of the 4th New York battery. Moving in among the large boulders in that vicinity would enable it to fire down upon the 2nd Georgia moving eastward on the south side of those boulders, which fits with extant accounts. At the same time the 99th could relieve the 4th Maine, which fell back (northward) to regroup as shown on my 1725 map.

I have also questioned where the 99th has been supposedly located with their monument and markers. I tend to be suspicious when a regiment claims to have been positioned at the very top of a hill. I'm thinking that the desire to be easily seen by visitors might affect the memory of the veterans. :wink:
 
Based on the input, here is my latest estimate of Smith's guns (Green line below). As I mentioned previously, there are several large rocks directly in front of the 99th Pa monument. Is it possible that Smith's guns were a bit west of the green line (left) and one of those rocks in front of the 99th is the rock Hunt was referring to be painted - the blue line in the map shot.
I have used Garry's and Tim's Devil's Den book a lot and the Smith's gun location has always been an interesting mystery to me.

Another interesting theory and places for me to check out on my next visit. To continue this discussion, I thought that I would add a couple of images:

The first is from the book that you mentioned. Adelman & Smith place the 4 guns where I had indicated in my first map.

IMG_NEW.jpg



The second image is Smith's own sketch of his gun's positions. Primary source!
IMG_0001_NEW222.jpg
 
Interesting. I have a bullet found by Iva Rosensteel, "found at the top of Devils Den, between where the 4th N.Y. (Smiths Battery) was located, and the 124th N.Y.Inf." I've looked at maps before showing approximately where both units were.
 
Placing Smith's guns closer to the woods as shown on the Adelman/Smith map meshes with some accounts but begs additional questions:

-Were Smith's guns actually behind or in front of the 124th New York at some point as the latter's monument and left flank marker would seem to indicate? Why no mention of Smith being restricted in his fire due to friendly troops, or the 124th New York passing through the battery?

-Or if the 124th New York always remained to the right (north) of the guns, how do we reconcile the 50-100 yard gap reported between them and the 86th New York? So did the 124th New York cross the north wall into the triangular field in their charge against the Texans?

-The 99th Pennsylvania reached the spot where their monument sits, according to a historical sketch by C. H. Fasnacht delivered at the dedication of their monument, but the regiment afterwards advanced and "drove them [the Confederates] behind the rocks at Devil's Den." However, one wonders how they avoided a destructive fire upon their exposed right flank as suggested by the Adelman/Smith map.

-John Malachi Bowden of Company B, 2nd Georgia said few, in any of the 2nd Georgia crossed "Deep Creek" (Plum Run), yet the Adelman/Smith map has that entire regiment east of the run.

-One of the Houghton brothers of Company G, 2nd Georgia visited the field over 40 years later and recognized the spot where he had fought - where the government avenue passes near the "Devil's Den" sign, recalling that Union soldiers fired down on their line from atop the boulders, but the Adelman/Smith map has the 17th Georgia traversing that ground. What unit did those Union soldiers belong to, if not the 99th Pennsylvania?
 
Placing Smith's guns closer to the woods as shown on the Adelman/Smith map meshes with some accounts but begs additional questions:

-Were Smith's guns actually behind or in front of the 124th New York at some point as the latter's monument and left flank marker would seem to indicate? Why no mention of Smith being restricted in his fire due to friendly troops, or the 124th New York passing through the battery?

-Or if the 124th New York always remained to the right (north) of the guns, how do we reconcile the 50-100 yard gap reported between them and the 86th New York? So did the 124th New York cross the north wall into the triangular field in their charge against the Texans?

-The 99th Pennsylvania reached the spot where their monument sits, according to a historical sketch by C. H. Fasnacht delivered at the dedication of their monument, but the regiment afterwards advanced and "drove them [the Confederates] behind the rocks at Devil's Den." However, one wonders how they avoided a destructive fire upon their exposed right flank as suggested by the Adelman/Smith map.

-John Malachi Bowden of Company B, 2nd Georgia said few, in any of the 2nd Georgia crossed "Deep Creek" (Plum Run), yet the Adelman/Smith map has that entire regiment east of the run.

-One of the Houghton brothers of Company G, 2nd Georgia visited the field over 40 years later and recognized the spot where he had fought - where the government avenue passes near the "Devil's Den" sign, recalling that Union soldiers fired down on their line from atop the boulders, but the Adelman/Smith map has the 17th Georgia traversing that ground. What unit did those Union soldiers belong to, if not the 99th Pennsylvania?

Well done, Tom. Great points.

Now the next part of the discussion is where were the 2 guns in the rear? I believe that Smith reported that the rear guns were in the 75-150 foot range behind the crest of the hill. @Tom Elmore , your maps show the rear guns to be about 150 yards behind the crest.

Therefore, I am wondering which position the right flank marker for Smith's battery is supposed to represent. Could it be the position of the rear guns? If so, it would be within range of Smith's reports.
 
Well done, Tom. Great points.

Now the next part of the discussion is where were the 2 guns in the rear? I believe that Smith reported that the rear guns were in the 75-150 foot range behind the crest of the hill. @Tom Elmore , your maps show the rear guns to be about 150 yards behind the crest.

Therefore, I am wondering which position the right flank marker for Smith's battery is supposed to represent. Could it be the position of the rear guns? If so, it would be within range of Smith's reports.

If you'll look at my 1725 (5:25 p.m.) map, you'll notice the 40th New York moving through the Wheatfield. Once it cleared the woods, I imagine it would move by the right oblique down Plum Run valley to the position marked by its monument, because it was under fire from Confederates at the south end of the valley. This supposition was strongly influenced by an address made by George E. Harrington at the dedication of the 40th New York monument (New York at Gettysburg, 1:294), in which he writes that the regiment "moved by the flank through Smith's battery" to a position on the extreme left of the 3rd Corps. He must be referring to Smith's section. When I marked the guns on my map at the same position the two cannon now occupy on the field, it is easy to reconcile the 40th New York moving through the guns at that position.

On the other hand, Smith's section could not be located where the Adelman/Smith map has it, otherwise the 40th New York would have collided with the 6th New Jersey, based on Harrington's account.
 
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If you'll look at my 1725 (5:25 p.m.) map, you'll notice the 40th New York moving through the Wheatfield. Once it cleared the woods, I imagine it would move by the left oblique down Plum Run valley to the position marked by its monument, because it was under fire from Confederates at the south end of the valley. This supposition was strongly influenced by an address made by George E. Harrington at the dedication of the 40th New York monument (New York at Gettysburg, 1:294), in which he writes that the regiment "moved by the flank through Smith's battery" to a position on the extreme left of the 3rd Corps. He must be referring to Smith's section. When I marked the guns on my map at the same position the two cannon now occupy on the field, it is easy to reconcile the 40th New York moving through the guns at that position.

On the other hand, Smith's section could not be located where the Adelman/Smith map has it, otherwise the 40th New York would have collided with the 6th New Jersey, based on Harrington's account.

I agree and it makes the most sense, narratively. There are a number of issues that I have with the Adelman/Smith map.

Ryan
 
If you'll look at my 1725 (5:25 p.m.) map, you'll notice the 40th New York moving through the Wheatfield. Once it cleared the woods, I imagine it would move by the right oblique down Plum Run valley to the position marked by its monument, because it was under fire from Confederates at the south end of the valley. This supposition was strongly influenced by an address made by George E. Harrington at the dedication of the 40th New York monument (New York at Gettysburg, 1:294), in which he writes that the regiment "moved by the flank through Smith's battery" to a position on the extreme left of the 3rd Corps. He must be referring to Smith's section. When I marked the guns on my map at the same position the two cannon now occupy on the field, it is easy to reconcile the 40th New York moving through the guns at that position.

On the other hand, Smith's section could not be located where the Adelman/Smith map has it, otherwise the 40th New York would have collided with the 6th New Jersey, based on Harrington's account.

First, I am going to assume that you meant that the 40th NY moved by the left oblique down the valley? Second, how do we reconcile Smith's report that the rear section was 75 or 100 yards beyond the crest of Houck's ridge? The position of today's guns on the field are more like 300 yards from the crest. Third, any ideas as to what that right flank marker represents?
 
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