Desperate Measures: Self-Mutiliation to Avoid Service

[Library Lady]

Not so. The Japanese did it with ease during WW2. To prevent being captured they committed suicide by putting the Rifle barrel between their eyes and pulling the trigger with their big toe. I've seen a few pics of this in history books of them dead in their bunkers with the rifle on top of them, big toe in trigger, & hole in their head!

That's pretty much what I saw in the pictures, though the head wound was probably a bit more substantial (which is why I was looking for words - I didn't have a lot of experience with that kind of neurology in my little rural community general hospital). I don't know if the person thought it up himself, was a vet and had seen it personally or found it in a book. I would still think that's hard to do - but I'm not the most coordinated person in the world.

 

[rebelatsea]

My brother in law got drafted for Vietnam and chose not to fight. He spent his time at ft. Leavenworth in prison. Now he has health problems and the V.A. takes care of him, go figure…..

Would his health problems be related to his treatment in a military prison?
Our Infamous "glass house" at Colchester was notorious. My Father served as a an MP Corporal 1946 -47 there.

 

[G Low]

Would his health problems be related to his treatment in a military prison?
Our Infamous "glass house" at Colchester was notorious. My Father served as a an MP Corporal 1946 -47 there.

Don't think so.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I am not sure that many folks on CWT will remember that 4-F was a draft designation for physically unfit for service. That shorthand was hold over from the Imperial French draft.

In order to be drafted a man had to have 4 teeth with which to bite open a paper cartridge. Needless to say, Frenchmen would knock out their front teeth to avoid the draft or at least service in the infantry.

 

[Rhea Cole]

As a souvenir of a traffic accident when I was a toddler there is a blind spot in my left eye big enough to disqualify me from the draft. As was, my draft number was 294. The Russians would have been crossing the Big Sioux River before the South Dakota draft board would have called my name. I still wanted to honor the family tradition of service, so volunteered for the Peace Corps. My mom was a Rosie the Riveter in WWII. What she did was statistically more dangerous than military service when she was hired. There are a lot of ways to serve other than joining the military.

 

[G Low]

I am not sure that many folks on CWT will remember that 4-F was a draft designation for physically unfit for service. That shorthand was hold over from the Imperial French draft.

In order to be drafted a man had to have 4 teeth with which to bite open a paper cartridge. Needless to say, Frenchmen would knock out their front teeth to avoid the draft or at least service in the infantry.

My grandfather was 4F he had to show up at the draft board on crutches in a full body cast with a broken hip. My uncle was 4F too, he had polio and one leg was shorter than the other.

 

[Rhea Cole]

My grandfather was 4F he had to show up at the draft board on crutches in a full body cast with a broken hip. My uncle was 4F too, he had polio and one leg was shorter than the other.

My wife's dad only had one eye. Volunteered from the American Field Service. Drove an ambulance while attached to the Poles at Monte Casino. Said that the only good deal was that he always had a dry place to sleep.

 

[G Low]

My wife's dad only had one eye. Volunteered from the American Field Service. Drove an ambulance while attached to the Poles at Monte Casino. Said that the only good deal was that he always had a dry place to sleep.

My wife's dad joined the Navy during the Vietnam war but they sent him home from boot camp with some sort of heart ailment. He wasn't disappointed. My other grandpa joined the medical Corps during WW 1 .

 

[G Low]

My avatar (gg grandfather) left service and came home in 1864 He was killed, shot off his horse and buried in an unmarked grave somewhere near Elijay, Ga. Good thing he came home because my g grandfather was born not long after the war…

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

As a souvenir of a traffic accident when I was a toddler there is a blind spot in my left eye big enough to disqualify me from the draft. As was, my draft number was 294. The Russians would have been crossing the Big Sioux River before the South Dakota draft board would have called my name. I still wanted to honor the family tradition of service, so volunteered for the Peace Corps. My mom was a Rosie the Riveter in WWII. What she did was statistically more dangerous than military service when she was hired. There are a lot of ways to serve other than joining the military.

At least you opted to serve, @Rhea Cole.

 

[bayonet]

I heard Bone Spurs kept many from serving

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

I heard Bone Spurs kept many from serving

It seems that bone spurs would have to be severe, well-diagnosed, proven by radiology, and proven in every known way to prevent serving.

 

[bayonet]

It seems that bone spurs would have to be severe, well-diagnosed, proven by radiology, and proven in every known way to prevent serving.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

View attachment 589616

Not certain that an isolated case of a bone spur could have been used as an excuse, of course.

 

[damYankee]

I have a theoretical question on the topic of draft dodging and self mutilation in order to avoid serving in the military.
Would those who are critical of men who declined to serve their country during war feel the same way toward a German who "cowardly" chose not to serve say in WWII as an example?
To put it another way
At what point does the individual citizen owe their nation an obligation to serve if they determine the war is unjust?

 

[Rhea Cole]

I have a theoretical question on the topic of draft dodging and self mutilation in order to avoid serving in the military.
Would those who are critical of men who declined to serve their country during war feel the same way toward a German who "cowardly" chose not to serve say in WWII as an example?
To put it another way
At what point does the individual citizen owe their nation an obligation to serve if they determine the war is unjust?

You have defined the difference between a citizen & a subject.

For centuries the Janissaries of the Ottoman Empire were elite soldiers. Their compound bows had an extreme range of (+/-) 900 yards. To achieve a measured 924 yard /845 meter shot an overdraw tool called a "siper" was used.

The Janissaries were the conscripted children of Christians from the Balkan provinces. From the 14th Century to 1826 they were personal slaves of the Sultan. They were leaders in the adoption of firearms. The monastic life & discipline imposed on the Janissaries led to a highly effective military force.

This is a case where a soldier's existence was defined as a creature of the state.

In the Sixties, when young men of my cohort were torn between loyalty to country & personal moral imperatives it was not a theoretical exercise. It was literally answering the question, "Do I get onto the bus or do I not? Board the bus to Fort Campbell & then a flight to Viet Nam or do I not?"

As we now know, that war was as deadly as it was futile. I have sat around a fire while friends who did & did not get on that bus talk out their conclusions. Mine is that it took courage to get on & courage to not to.

 

[G Low]

You have defined the difference between a citizen & a subject.

View attachment 589618
For centuries the Janissaries of the Ottoman Empire were elite soldiers. Their compound bows had an extreme range of (+/-) 900 yards. To achieve a measured 924 yard /845 meter shot an overdraw tool called a "siper" was used.

The Janissaries were the conscripted children of Christians from the Balkan provinces. From the 14th Century to 1826 they were personal slaves of the Sultan. They were leaders in the adoption of firearms. The monastic life & discipline imposed on the Janissaries led to a highly effective military force.

This is a case where a soldier's existence was defined as a creature of the state.

In the Sixties, when young men of my cohort were torn between loyalty to country & personal moral imperatives. It was not a theoretical exercise. It was literally answering the question, "Do I get onto the bus or do I not? Board the bus to Fort Campbell & then a flight to Viet Nam or do I not?"

As we now know, that war was as deadly as it was futile. I have sat around a fire while friends who did & did not get on that bus talk out their conclusions. Mine is that it took courage to get on & courage to not to.

Did I read once they the janissaries were castrated then taught to fight when they got older. Don't think they had much of a choice.

 

[The Pennsylvania Line]

There are many ways to serve one's nation and when I read a discussion like this it reminds me of Americans like Desmond Doss. He was awarded the Medal of Honor as a Combat Medic and refused to carry a weapon.

Desmond Doss - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I served in an all volunteer military and there were individuals who were not suited for combat.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Did I read once they the janissaries were castrated then taught to fight when they got older. Don't think they had much of a choice.

You need to read up on the Janissaries. They were not eunuchs serving in the harem. Read more here.

Link

How the Janissaries Became the Most Powerful Force in Ottoman History | TheCollector

The Janissary Corps, the first standing army in Europe, was not only a military but also a political and social force in the Ottoman Empire.

www.thecollector.com

 

[G Low]

You need to read up on the Janissaries. They were not eunuchs serving in the harem. Read more here.

Link

How the Janissaries Became the Most Powerful Force in Ottoman History | TheCollector

The Janissary Corps, the first standing army in Europe, was not only a military but also a political and social force in the Ottoman Empire.

www.thecollector.com

Oh yeah, I knew those ottomans were castrating some people but it was the eunuchs.