Dahlgren's raid Controversy

[Lincoln65]

I was reading up on Dahlgren's raid of 1864 the other day, and I was reminded of all the controversy surrounding it. When Ulric Dahlgren (son of the famous Admiral Dahlgren) was killed during his bungled raid (the object of which was to free Union prisoners) on Richmond, some papers were discovered on his body. Written on one of them was:

"The men must keep together and well in hand, and once in the city it must be destroyed and Jeff. Davis and Cabinet killed."

The South denounced the Union for its barbarity, while the North cried that the note was a forgery. The struggle between those who believe it was a forgery and those who believe it was authentic rages to this day. Nowadays, the general opinion is that it is authentic. I personally believe it was authentic. What do you guys think?

Another controversy is how far up the Union command chain was the other purpose of the raid known? Lost Causers say Lincoln himself authorized the assassination of Davis, though this is beyond ludicrous. Lincoln gave Dahlgren thousands of flyers to distribute to the people of Virginia, proclaiming general amnesty if rebels would put down their arms. Killing Davis and burning down Richmond would have only added fuel to the fire, which doesn't seem to jive with Lincoln's message of amnesty. He discussed aspects of the raid with Kilpatrick before he gave his approval for it, and there is zero evidence to suggest they came up with a plan to kill Davis and burn down Richmond. The highest it can be said to have gone was MAYBE Edwin Stanton. Based upon my limited research, it seems that the note found its way into Stanton's hands after the fall of Richmond, and then it just disappeared. If Stanton destroyed it, then he very well could have known about the other purpose of the raid. Meade did not know about it. Judson Kilpatrick might have known about it or even have been the one to suggest it. I'd like to know what kind of person Ulric Dahlgren was.

Can anyone shed light on his personality, and give me your opinion on what happened and who knew?

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Read this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SXNSVU/?tag=civilwartalkc-20.

If you want an actual hardcover book, I have plenty of them. And I promise that it will answer every single one of your questions that you posed in this post.

 

[Lincoln65]

Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Like-Meteor-Blazing-Brightly-Controversial-ebook/dp/B002SXNSVU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407013791&sr=8-1&keywords=ulric dahlgren.

If you want an actual hardcover book, I have plenty of them. And I promise that it will answer every single one of your questions that you posed in this post.

That was fast. Thanks for finding that resource for me, they have it at my library, so I'll go check it out today or tomorrow. Thanks again for suggesting that book. You're the author of the book, right?

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

That was fast. Thanks for finding that resource for me, they have it at my library, so I'll go check it out today or tomorrow. Thanks again for suggesting that book.

Having written it, I'm a little familiar with its contents.

 

[Lincoln65]

Having written it, I'm a little familiar with its contents.

Gosh, I just edited my earlier post to say you were the author right as soon as you said you were the author

 

[Lincoln65]

Who is your avatar, Wittenberg?

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

No worries. It really does answer all of your questions. And you will have a very real sense of who Ully Dahlgren was when you finish reading it. I hope you enjoy it.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Who is your avatar, Wittenberg?

That's my favorite image of John Buford.

Please feel free to use my first name--it's my actual, honest-to-goodness first name.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

A previous discussion,
http://civilwartalk.com/threads/dahlgren-papers-authentic-or-fake.96899/

 

[Lincoln65]

That's my favorite image of John Buford.

Ah, very cool.

 

[BillO]

I've always figured it was Stanton handywork and if the reveiwers are correct Mr. Wittenberg seems to think so as well. I should get a prize.

 

[Lincoln65]

I've always figured it was Stanton handywork and if the reveiwers are correct Mr. Wittenberg seems to think so as well. I should get a prize.

Stanton did become pretty hardcore radical near the end of the war.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

It may was Stanton's work or Lincoln's. Jefferson Davis would always remain a threat for the Union president, even when the Union won the war. In the mind of Southern people, he was a symbol. Having him killed would add flame to the fire, but the South would have lost one of her great voices. It would do the US President more good than harm. Finally, President Davis belonged in the categories of Confederate people (Army generals and Congressmen) that would not gain amnesty. Think of it.
Civil War Scholar.

 

[Eagle eye]

Lincoln 65… you state " Lincoln gave Dahlgren thousands of flyers to distribute to the people of Virginia, proclaiming general amnesty if rebels would put down their arms."
I've never heard not seen proof of these flyers… have any of them survived?
What sources have you to show that Lincoln himself gave thes 'flyers' to Dahlgren himself?

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

It may was Stanton's work or Lincoln's. Jefferson Davis would always remain a threat for the Union president, even when the Union won the war. In the mind of Southern people, he was a symbol. Having him killed would add flame to the fire, but the South would have lost one of her great voices. It would do the US President more good than harm. Finally, President Davis belonged in the categories of Confederate people (Army generals and Congressmen) that would not gain amnesty. Think of it.
Civil War Scholar.

And this opinion is based on what, precisely? Shelby Foote again?

 

[Nathanb1]

And this opinion is based on what, precisely? Shelby Foote again?

Eh, see the wall? Just fling stuff.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Eh, see the wall? Just fling stuff.

This individual seems to have a real proclivity for doing so, Nate.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

Eric Wittenberg,
This opinion cannot be traced to Foote, since Foote never expressed an opinion in his narrative. He just told the facts, leaving us to draw our conclusions. I don't want to flame you and I sincerely hope I don't insult you, but, if you want to counter my argument do it telling me your own opinion and we will have a discussion, which will be joined by others, too.
Thank you,
Civil War Scholar.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Eric Wittenberg,
This opinion cannot be traced to Foote, since Foote never expressed an opinion in his narrative. He just told the facts, leaving us to draw our conclusions. I don't want to flame you and I sincerely hope I don't insult you, but, if you want to counter my argument do it telling me your own opinion and we will have a discussion, which will be joined by others, too.
Thank you,
Civil War Scholar.

Chief,

Have you spent hours and hours reading and re-reading every word that Ulric Dahlgren ever wrote to his father so that you could see and recognize his handwriting in your sleep?

Do you know his handwriting and writing style as well as you know your own?

Have you ever examined the surviving photographic copies of the Dahlgren Papers?

Have you ever examined actual examples of Ulric Dahlgren's handwriting?

Have you followed and visited every step of the raid to make sure you understand why it failed?

I would guess that the answer is a resounding "no" since you are incapable of doing any independent research of the primary sources.

Well, guess what, sporto: I HAVE. I spent 10 years researching and writing a biography of Ulric Dahlgren. I have done that work. I've compared my own conclusions with a forensic report by a police handwriting expert and they matched. Why? Because I actually research things on my own.

And when you have 45 years invested in the study of the Civil War and have spent thousands of hours on the battlefields like I have, then your opinion will matter to me. And then, maybe, just maybe, that insulting and undeserved handle you have bestowed upon yourself--which you most assuredly have NOT earned--might be appropriate. It surely is not now. Indeed, you have nothing but unmitigated gall calling yourself a Civil War scholar. Nobody I know who has put the time and effort invested into the study of the Civil War would have the nerve to call himself or herself such a thing.

When you have done what I've done, then, and only then, will I permit you to lecture me. Until then, you are--and will remain--nothing but a contemptuous dilettante and poseur. And spare me the lecture because I'm not the least bit interested.

I trust that I have made myself abundantly clear, champ. And just for the record, I really couldn't imagine caring less about anything than I care about whether you like this post. Get over it.

You are dismissed.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

Chief,

Have you spent hours and hours reading and re-reading every word that Ulric Dahlgren ever wrote to his father so that you could see and recognize his handwriting in your sleep?

Do you know his handwriting and writing style as well as you know your own?

Have you ever examined the surviving photographic copies of the Dahlgren Papers?

Have you ever examined actual examples of Ulric Dahlgren's handwriting?

Have you followed and visited every step of the raid to make sure you understand why it failed?

I would guess that the answer is a resounding "no" since you are incapable of doing any independent research of the primary sources.

Well, guess what, sporto: I HAVE. I spent 10 years researching and writing a biography of Ulric Dahlgren. I have done that work. I've compared my own conclusions with a forensic report by a police handwriting expert and they matched. Why? Because I actually research things on my own.

And when you have 45 years invested in the study of the Civil War and have spent thousands of hours on the battlefields like I have, then your opinion will matter to me. And then, maybe, just maybe, that insulting and undeserved handle you have bestowed upon yourself--which you most assuredly have NOT earned--might be appropriate. It surely is not now. Indeed, you have nothing but unmitigated gall calling yourself a Civil War scholar. Nobody I know who has put the time and effort invested into the study of the Civil War would have the nerve to call himself or herself such a thing.

When you have done what I've done, then, and only then, will I permit you to lecture me. Until then, you are--and will remain--nothing but a contemptuous dilettante and poseur. And spare me the lecture because I'm not the least bit interested.

I trust that I have made myself abundantly clear, champ. And just for the record, I really couldn't imagine caring less about anything than I care about whether you like this post. Get over it.

You are dismissed.

Mr. Wittenberg,
I just posted an opinion, based on some facts. I am comparatively new in the study of the Civil War and have not been to any battlefields yet, but I have read thousands of sources and have communicated with other people interested in the war, in and out of the USA. I have a friend from Ohio, with whom I have made many in-depth discussions, including one about the Dahlgren Papers.
Congratulations for doing your research and writing your book. I don't doubt you as an author or researcher.
As for my username, there are no Civil War scholarships in Greece. My Ohioan friend suggested it to me because, he says, "I could be a Civil War Scholar", to quote him.
Thanks for your reply,
Civil War Scholar.