Dahlgren's Raid/Affair

[FarawayFriend]

.guess I need to get it, 'cause @War Horse has it, and I cannot Bee outdone

... and I cannot be faraway from that topic then!
If only I could buy time to read also!! (But we can be at ease for a little time still, @War Horse said he owns it but has not read it yet!)

 

[Rebforever]

I don't see you criticizing @Mike Griffith for going off topic.Maybe ask the mods to delete his post and my replies dealing with it.
Leftyhunter

Ain't talking about Mike. Talking to you!

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Why did Dahlgren have orders on him written in his own hand? I believe the authenticity, just wondering.

At one point prior to moving on the defenses of Richmond, Dahlgren addressed his troops. Part of the documents were the contents of that address.

I'll do the reading as well but was there a diversionary tactic in play here to let Dahlgren make a direct run for Richmond? Why does Kilpatrick back out? Why all the stops along the way and stirring up all the attention?

Kilpatrick's command--the main body, about 3000 troopers--was the diversion. He was to probe the defenses of Richmond from the north while Dahlgren entered from the south, freed the POW's, and then tried to capture Davis, etc.

Are there primary sources from Dahlgrens command? Particularly any individuals who were there when he fell? I not suggesting it's wrong, but the description of his death seems odd, the lead riders report the road is blocked up ahead, and the commander rides directly up to it? They're being chased thru enemy territory, and a road block would be a sure sign of a trap. I'm not being an armchair quarterback, just trying to find out what exactly happened.

Again I'll do the reading, just wondering what everyone's come across on this.

There are a number from Dahlgren's command, which originally numbered 500 men, but it's important to realize that after the repulse from the defenses of Richmond, his command split, and by the time he met his end, there were only about 85 men with him. Virtually all of them were captured.

Regarding what was up ahead: let's keep in mind that these men had been constantly on the move, with only short breaks, for 48+ hours in wretched weather conditions, including freezing rain. By the time that they reached the ambush site in King and Queen Court House, it was nearly midnight, and pitch black. You're making an assumption that they saw that road block. Allow me to suggest that on a very dark moonless night in thick woods, you would never know it was there until you hit it.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

And, into the "what if" scheme of things, it's entirely plausible to think, that Lincoln at least knew about the plans, or gave it the nod in private counsel, but I find it hard to imagine he would have actually approved of sending in Dahlgren specifically given how close their families were.

It's not a criticism of Lincoln either, at that point in the war it probably looked like no end in sight.

I state in the book that I believe that Stanton intentionally did NOT tell Lincoln about this for purposes of what is today known as "plausible deniability."

Consequently, I doubt that he knew about Ully Dahlgren's participation until after the fact. It was known that his health was very fragile--Dahlgren had met with Lincoln alone (but for Lincoln's barber) at the beginning of February; all we know of that meeting is what Ully wrote in his diary, which is that they spoke of political military matters (I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that meeting). But I doubt very much that Lincoln knew in advance. There simply is no evidence to suggest that he did.

 

[Riggs]

At one point prior to moving on the defenses of Richmond, Dahlgren addressed his troops. Part of the documents were the contents of that address.



Kilpatrick's command--the main body, about 3000 troopers--was the diversion. He was to probe the defenses of Richmond from the north while Dahlgren entered from the south, freed the POW's, and then tried to capture Davis, etc.



There are a number from Dahlgren's command, which originally numbered 500 men, but it's important to realize that after the repulse from the defenses of Richmond, his command split, and by the time he met his end, there were only about 85 men with him. Virtually all of them were captured.

Regarding what was up ahead: let's keep in mind that these men had been constantly on the move, with only short breaks, for 48+ hours in wretched weather conditions, including freezing rain. By the time that they reached the ambush site in King and Queen Court House, it was nearly midnight, and pitch black. You're making an assumption that they saw that road block. Allow me to suggest that on a very dark moonless night in thick woods, you would never know it was there until you hit it.

Thank you Eric. At around 51:00 on the YouTube clip the ambush is discussed, & there is mention that a scout reports back to Dahlgren and co. that the road ahead is blocked. His officers all ride up and the shooting starts. I guess I was wondering why Dahlgren would ride directly to the front, but he wasn't alone and they were in a tough spot; a cold dark night, running low on ammunition, behind enemy lines, perhaps in the dark they couldn't make out exactly how many defenders were there. I'm in awe that despite Dahlgren still recovering from his wounds from the prior year he's as aggressive and bold as ever. A very brave young man.

 

[Aussie Billy Sherman]

I'll do you one better...

In 1958, in conjunction with the release of his book Eight Hours Before Richmond, author Virgil Carrington Jones hired a police handwriting expert named Ira Gullickson to examine the photos of the Dahlgren papers and to write a report of his analysis of their authenticity. I happen to own one of two known copies of the report--I happened to purchase Jones' own copy of his book, and the report was tucked inside the book when I bought it. Fortunately, Admiral Dahlgren was quite the pack rat and saved every scrap of paper, and when he died, his widow donated about 10,000 pages to the Library of Congress, including Ully's diary and every letter that Ully ever sent to his father, so there are plenty of exemplars to choose from.

Using what was the state of the art in handwriting analysis in 1958, Gullickson concluded that the documents are authentic. I agree completely. Having read all of that correspondence and the diary in the course of writing my biography of Dahlgren, I am quite familiar with Ully Dahlgren's handwriting, and there's little doubt in my mind that they were written entirely in his very neat, very precise handwriting. I say so in an appendix to my book, and I quote from the report at some length in that appendix.

The bigger question is not the authenticity of the documents, but rather who was involved: was Dahlgren cowboying? Or was this part of a bigger plot? After years of researching this, I came to the conclusion that Stanton and Kilpatrick cooked up the plot, found a very willing participant in Dahlgren--he had proposed a raid on Richmond in the spring of 1863 that was rejected by Stanton--and then disavowed him after the raid failed. Again, when you know this story as well as I do, it's quite clear that Kilpatrick lied through his teeth in disavowing Dahlgren.

The proof is in the pudding. Not long after Richmond fell, Stanton ordered that the originals of the Dahlgren papers be brought to him. Francis Lieber delivered them to Stanton, and they were never seen again. Conclusion: Stanton burned them in the hope of covering this up. Fortunately for us modern historians, there were several photographic copies made of them that survived the war; I know of two sets of original photographic copies, both safely in archives.

Entering conspiracy theory territory there I think with Stanton and the burning of the papers. Sounds like Stanton and the missing pages of Booth's diary theory.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Thank you Eric. At around 51:00 on the YouTube clip the ambush is discussed, & there is mention that a scout reports back to Dahlgren and co. that the road ahead is blocked. His officers all ride up and the shooting starts. I guess I was wondering why Dahlgren would ride directly to the front, but he wasn't alone and they were in a tough spot; a cold dark night, running low on ammunition, behind enemy lines, perhaps in the dark they couldn't make out exactly how many defenders were there. I'm in awe that despite Dahlgren still recovering from his wounds from the prior year he's as aggressive and bold as ever. A very brave young man.

You're welcome.

Ully was too brave and too ambitious for his own good--those bad personality traits cost the life of a brilliant young man with an incredibly bright future. There's a reason why I titled my book as I did: Like a Meteor Blazing Brightly--brightly flashing across the night sky before burning out.

I don't know if you're familiar with the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia. It was founded by Ben himself, and it's always been known as one of the great science museums in the country. Ully was asked to address the Franklin Institute at 19. That should tell you something about him. Tracking down the article addressing that was a real bear, let me tell you.

 

[Specster]

His dad was quite the man, Admiral and inventor (canon), he spent his later years trying to clear his son's name.

 

[amweiner]

I state in the book that I believe that Stanton intentionally did NOT tell Lincoln about this for purposes of what is today known as "plausible deniability."

Consequently, I doubt that he knew about Ully Dahlgren's participation until after the fact. It was known that his health was very fragile--Dahlgren had met with Lincoln alone (but for Lincoln's barber) at the beginning of February; all we know of that meeting is what Ully wrote in his diary, which is that they spoke of political military matters (I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that meeting). But I doubt very much that Lincoln knew in advance. There simply is no evidence to suggest that he did.

Eric and others, please forgive me if I drift into conspiracy theory on this, but do you believe that Stanton might have been motivated by a desire to pull the game-winning play out of his pocket to show up Lincoln? It appears that he held Lincoln in fairly low regard (at least earlier in the war, I don't know how he might have felt by 1864). From what I've read of Stanton, he sounded ambitious and jealous, not unlike Kilpatrick. Do you think he might have been trying to make the decisive stroke on his own and establish himself as a power player?

Sorry if that's too far-fetched.

Adam

 

[Drew]

I state in the book that I believe that Stanton intentionally did NOT tell Lincoln about this for purposes of what is today known as "plausible deniability."

Consequently, I doubt that he knew about Ully Dahlgren's participation until after the fact. It was known that his health was very fragile--Dahlgren had met with Lincoln alone (but for Lincoln's barber) at the beginning of February; all we know of that meeting is what Ully wrote in his diary, which is that they spoke of political military matters (I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that meeting). But I doubt very much that Lincoln knew in advance. There simply is no evidence to suggest that he did.

Eric, I know from your book that Dahlgren was shot after Gettysburg and suffered the amputation of a lower extremity. It's been a couple of years, but I think you showed in your book that he was so terribly ill so as not to be expected to live.

Being assigned to lead a major cavalry operation, six months after an amputation was way too soon, given the state of medicine in the 1860s. That is my opinion and ultimately points to senior command failure.

I have no opinion about what Lincoln may have known.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Eric, I know from your book that Dahlgren was shot after Gettysburg and suffered the amputation of a lower extremity. It's been a couple of years, but I think you showed in your book that he was so terribly ill so as not to be expected to live.

Being assigned to lead a major cavalry operation, six months after an amputation was way too soon, given the state of medicine in the 1860s. That is my opinion and ultimately points to senior command failure.

I have no opinion about what Lincoln may have known.

That's correct. He developed gangrene, which required the amputation of his right leg at the knee. He was so close to death that he was promoted to colonel to throw his father a bone. Instead of dying, he rallied and recovered.

I agree completely his not being physically ready. But there he was. I have concluded that it was because he was in on the scheme.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

His dad was quite the man, Admiral and inventor (canon), he spent his later years trying to clear his son's name.

And so did his widow after the Admiral died in 1870.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Eric and others, please forgive me if I drift into conspiracy theory on this, but do you believe that Stanton might have been motivated by a desire to pull the game-winning play out of his pocket to show up Lincoln? It appears that he held Lincoln in fairly low regard (at least earlier in the war, I don't know how he might have felt by 1864). From what I've read of Stanton, he sounded ambitious and jealous, not unlike Kilpatrick. Do you think he might have been trying to make the decisive stroke on his own and establish himself as a power player?

Sorry if that's too far-fetched.

Adam

He already was a power player. No question about that. He was one of the acknowledged leaders of the Radical Republicans.

I think Stanton may have harbored dreams of succeeding Lincoln as president. Had this scheme been successful, think about what a springboard to the presidency it would have made....

 

[amweiner]

He already was a power player. No question about that. He was one of the acknowledged leaders of the Radical Republicans.

I think Stanton may have harbored dreams of succeeding Lincoln as president. Had this scheme been successful, think about what a springboard to the presidency it would have made....

Thanks Eric...you put into words what I clumsily didn't say, that he was hoping to have his pick of posts.

I can imagine someone as sharp as Stanton parlaying a move like that into "Hey guys, I saved the Union!"

 

[E_just_E]

Entering conspiracy theory territory there I think with Stanton and the burning of the papers. Sounds like Stanton and the missing pages of Booth's diary theory.

Dahlgren was not that much different than Booth, as far as this is concerned, other than the fact that Booth completed his mission. They were both after the Commander in Chief of their enemies...

 

[Lost Cause]

The "Dahlgren Affair" has always interested me after accidently coming across his path he took in Goochland County during a battlefield excursion a few decades ago. U. Dahlgren's combination of brave fearlessness, arrogance, and lust for self recognition, and eventual promotion beyond his ability led to his ultimate downfall and that of many others. Prior to reading Mr. Wittenberg's book, I was not aware of Dahlgren's initial role in the AOP's Fredericksburg disaster. IMO, his book is a good, well researched and balanced read. I am left thinking U. Dahlgren achieved quite a bit, including assisting the Confederates with his few, yet fatal blunders.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

The "Dahlgren Affair" has always interested me after accidently coming across his path he took in Goochland County during a battlefield excursion a few decades ago. U. Dahlgren's combination of brave fearlessness, arrogance, and lust for self recognition, and eventual promotion beyond his ability led to his ultimate downfall and that of many others. Prior to reading Mr. Wittenberg's book, I was not aware of Dahlgren's initial role in the AOP's Fredericksburg disaster. IMO, his book is a good, well researched and balanced read. I am left thinking U. Dahlgren achieved quite a bit, including assisting the Confederates with his few, yet fatal blunders.

Thank you for the kind words. I'm pleased to hear that you enjoyed the book and found some merit in it.